Discussion:
Rolleiflex SL 35 E
CarlosMFreaza
2014-02-26 15:53:23 UTC
Permalink
My Voigtländer VSL3 E , repaired two years ago in Braunschweig,
Germany, is working perfectly; I like to use it very much thanks to
its excellent ergonomics mainly.
The VSL3 E has a sibling, the Rolleiflex SL 35 E. I could not resist
an offer in our local eBay and bought a 'flex SL 35E. I received the
camera yesterday, it is in mint condition from any point of view. I
won't say it was never used, but it was used a few times.
It came with the original Rollei Werke F&H box, the camera serial
number is written on it. It also came with the two original caps for
the Planar 1.8/50 HFT lens (pristine), camera body cap, camera strap,
camera case, eye cup piece, lens hood, UV filter, multilingual
instructions manual, a F&H brochure in Spanish about the camera and
even the original purchase invoice (it was bought in May 1981 at
"Photokina SRL", Buenos Aires city, Rollei representative at the
time).
The camera SN is 6492303, made in Singapore during 1980.
VSL 3 E and SL35 E are identical except for three points:

1) The Sl 35E has multi-exposure capability for the same frame.
2) The SL35E camera back has a slot to insert the film label.
3) The SL35E top cover is metal made, the VSL3 E top cover is plastic
made. The prism form is different.

This is a current "review" about the SL 35E, I think it is too brief
to be considered a camera review, however it has some interesting
points. I don't know the article source to say the SL35E was designed
by Heinz Waaske, the Rollei 35 designer. I know he had a significant
participation to design the Rollei SL 26 and the Rolleimatic, he also
designed a film magazine for the SL 2000 system, but I think he is not
mentioned by Prochnow regarding the SL 35E construction (I'm writing
from memory):
http://www.lomography.com/magazine/reviews/2013/11/29/the-wonderful-slr-a-rolleiflex-sl35e-review

Carlos
Chris Burck
2014-02-26 21:04:56 UTC
Permalink
Enhorabuena on your nice acquisition, Carlos.
On Feb 26, 2014 9:53 AM, "CarlosMFreaza" <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> My Voigtländer VSL3 E , repaired two years ago in Braunschweig,
> Germany, is working perfectly; I like to use it very much thanks to
> its excellent ergonomics mainly.
> The VSL3 E has a sibling, the Rolleiflex SL 35 E. I could not resist
> an offer in our local eBay and bought a 'flex SL 35E. I received the
> camera yesterday, it is in mint condition from any point of view. I
> won't say it was never used, but it was used a few times.
> It came with the original Rollei Werke F&H box, the camera serial
> number is written on it. It also came with the two original caps for
> the Planar 1.8/50 HFT lens (pristine), camera body cap, camera strap,
> camera case, eye cup piece, lens hood, UV filter, multilingual
> instructions manual, a F&H brochure in Spanish about the camera and
> even the original purchase invoice (it was bought in May 1981 at
> "Photokina SRL", Buenos Aires city, Rollei representative at the
> time).
> The camera SN is 6492303, made in Singapore during 1980.
> VSL 3 E and SL35 E are identical except for three points:
>
> 1) The Sl 35E has multi-exposure capability for the same frame.
> 2) The SL35E camera back has a slot to insert the film label.
> 3) The SL35E top cover is metal made, the VSL3 E top cover is plastic
> made. The prism form is different.
>
> This is a current "review" about the SL 35E, I think it is too brief
> to be considered a camera review, however it has some interesting
> points. I don't know the article source to say the SL35E was designed
> by Heinz Waaske, the Rollei 35 designer. I know he had a significant
> participation to design the Rollei SL 26 and the Rolleimatic, he also
> designed a film magazine for the SL 2000 system, but I think he is not
> mentioned by Prochnow regarding the SL 35E construction (I'm writing
> from memory):
>
> http://www.lomography.com/magazine/reviews/2013/11/29/the-wonderful-slr-a-rolleiflex-sl35e-review
>
> Carlos
> ---
> Rollei List
>
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>
>
Marc James Small
2014-02-27 00:53:59 UTC
Permalink
I am planning on conducting a German camera show
on the weekend of June 29-22. So far, we have
one presenter who will lecture us on Retina
camera lore. I am hoping to pick up more
presenters, as you folks would be quite bored if
I had to run the entire show myself. Jerry
Laderberg will be there, but he and I go back to
the Charlie Barringer days, and our banter will
become stale after an hour or two. I have reason
to believe that I can arrange a visit on Friday
evening to the Zeiss North America Sports Optics concern nearby.

I need three things.

First, I need an approximate head count. This
show will be held in some hotel south of
Richmond, Virginia. I would like a head count of
673 folks, but that might be an unreasonable
goal. In any event, those of you who are willing
to put this into your summer travel plans may do
well to let me know. Folks from the UK or OZ or
Ireland would be especially welcome -- heck, I
will stand their tab at the bar, though my wife,
who knows Australians well, warns me against making that offer!

Second, we would like to do a camera sales event
on Sunday morning. I recognize that KEH has a
participation on one of the lists to which I am
sending this. Well, other buyers and sellers
ought to climb aboard. I anticipate a large
gathering (673 folks?) with bulging wallets, full
debit cards, and lots of gear to sell.

Third, I need more presenters. So far, Dave
Jentz and Mike Fletcher have come forward, so we
have the Retina and Ha$$elblad and Contax/
Yashica line covered. All others are
welcome. All German camera topics are on the
table. East German and West German. Pracktica
and Zeiss Ikon. Praktiflex -- when will someone
come forward to discuss the Practina line? We
need more presenters. Whether we can pay ou
depends on how many folks wish to show up. As it
stands, you are on your own unless the folks show
up. At the least, you will have a magnificent
dinner at Wagstaff's Steak Houss..

PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF YOU ARE GOING TO
ATTEND! I need a reasonable head-count to take
to a hotel in order to get us a reduced rate at
the hotel of choice. At this minute, I would
suggest that the price will be around $80.00 a
night but that will fall rather sharply as I have
some confirmed numbes to provide the hostel.

Do not sit on this. We need at least 35
committed folks to make this real. I am simply
setting out the facts. Let me know if you
are intending on attending. This German
Camerafest depends on YOUR support. If you do
not come forward, it will not happen.

HINT: Thee is no charg for attending. You
folks pay your hotel bills and so forth. The
dealers have to pay the Virginia sales tax, I
guess, but that is it. I thought of charging our
presenters a thousand dollars, but that fell out off rapidly. < he grins> .

The drop-dead date is the end of Mach. If I have
635 folks signed up by then, it will be a done
deal. 634? Well, we'll have to see! <he grins again>

Marc





***@aya.yale.edu
Cha robh bàs fir gun ghràs fir!
CarlosMFreaza
2014-02-27 09:26:37 UTC
Permalink
2014-02-26 18:04 GMT-03:00 Chris Burck <***@gmail.com>:
> Enhorabuena on your nice acquisition, Carlos.

Thank you very much Chris, gracias.

Carlos
Marc James Small
2014-02-26 21:30:45 UTC
Permalink
At 10:53 AM 2/26/2014, CarlosMFreaza wrote:
>My Voigtländer VSL3 E , repaired two years ago in Braunschweig,
>Germany, is working perfectly; I like to use it very much thanks to
>its excellent ergonomics mainly.
>The VSL3 E has a sibling, the Rolleiflex SL 35 E. I could not resist
>an offer in our local eBay and bought a 'flex SL 35E.

I have owned most of these cameeras over the
years, Carlos, but the one I have kept for a
decade is an SL 35E. It is a grand camera. And
Rollei made an M42 adapter (and one for LTM, as
well, though that one does not allow infinity
focus). The M42 adapter works quite well and
opens the universe to such things as the Kilfittt lenses and the CZJ line.

The SL 35E is a grand camera. It has a quite
accurate meter and a marvelous lens line.

I would love to own a 2000F or a 3003 but I've
never been able to afford one of these. So, I
stand back and admire my SL 35E. Pentacon made a
comparable camera at the same time in their
Bayonet Mount (a reversed Pentax BM, as a prime
thumbing of the nose to Zeiss Obercochen), and that is also a fine camera.

I'm still waiting for knowledge that the 2.8 has
been sent to me, but, so far, no news. I sent my
camera to the other fellow yesterday. It was a
Leica IIIf RDST with a a Summarit lens. I fear
that I have lost a thousand dollars on the
deal. Ah, well, easy come, easy go. I've lost
more on more stupid deals over the years.

I agree with Carlos about the virtues of the
Rollei 35 family. I took some stunningly sharp
shots of the foundations laid by a distant
ancestor in 1759 with a basic 35, and I later got
a 35S which is my car camera. This is a grand camera.

Marc


***@aya.yale.edu
Cha robh bàs fir gun ghràs fir!
CarlosMFreaza
2014-02-27 09:47:55 UTC
Permalink
2014-02-26 18:30 GMT-03:00 Marc James Small <***@comcast.net>:
...
> I have owned most of these cameeras over the years, Carlos, but the one I
> have kept for a decade is an SL 35E. It is a grand camera. And Rollei made
> an M42 adapter (and one for LTM, as well, though that one does not allow
> infinity focus). The M42 adapter works quite well and opens the universe to
> such things as the Kilfittt lenses and the CZJ line.
>...

Yes Marc, I also have the M42 adapter , the version that keeps the
lens automatic diaphragm function.
The E cameras can use PX 28 alkaline, silver oxyde or lithium
batteries. Battery is OK if the red diode illuminates for two seconds;
alkalines batteries will last less time than the others BTW..

Carlos
Hauke Fath
2014-03-01 17:53:21 UTC
Permalink
At 12:53 Uhr -0300 26.2.2014, CarlosMFreaza wrote:
>This is a current "review" about the SL 35E, I think it is too brief
>to be considered a camera review, however it has some interesting
>points. I don't know the article source to say the SL35E was designed
>by Heinz Waaske, the Rollei 35 designer. I know he had a significant
>participation to design the Rollei SL 26 and the Rolleimatic, he also
>designed a film magazine for the SL 2000 system, but I think he is not
>mentioned by Prochnow regarding the SL 35E construction [...]

I found a biography(*) of Heinz Waaske on the local Darmstadt photo fair
about three years ago (should have bought a second copy for myself...). The
book does not mention him in the context of the Rolleiflex SL35* series at
all - I paid special attention to that. He designed the A26 126 viewfinder,
but I am not sure he had a hand in the SL26 (too butt-ugly, IMHO).

His last project with F&H was the Rolleimatic, after which he left the
company (~1978, the wikipedia says), and worked as a freelance designer
with various other camera manufacturers.

hauke


(*) Eikmann, J., Voigt, U: Kameras für Millionen, Heinz Waaske:
Konstrukteur, Wittig 1997

--
"It's never straight up and down" (DEVO)
CarlosMFreaza
2014-03-01 19:47:09 UTC
Permalink
2014-03-01 14:53 GMT-03:00 Hauke Fath <***@espresso.rhein-neckar.de>:

>...
> I found a biography(*) of Heinz Waaske on the local Darmstadt photo fair
> about three years ago (should have bought a second copy for myself...). The
> book does not mention him in the context of the Rolleiflex SL35* series at
> all - I paid special attention to that.

Yes, I wrote it in my previous post, but I was not sure about it. I
checked Prochnow's Rollei Report 3 book now, he does not mention Heinz
Waaske regarding the SL 35 E camera


> He designed the A26 126 viewfinder,
> but I am not sure he had a hand in the SL26 (too butt-ugly, IMHO).

"..Design chief Richard Weiss entrusted him (Heinz Waaske) with the
design of a new SLR for 28x28mm cartridge film, the later Rolleiflex
SL 26..." (Rollei 35, a camera history, Claus Prochnow, page 37). It
was the first task for HW when he joined Rollei in January 1965,
however he disclosed his small 35mm camera protoype in March 1965 and
had to stop work on the SL26 to work on his camera, the Rollei 35. He
started to design the SL 26 anyway, if you look at it, it has some
similarity with the Rollei 35, but controls, finishing and size are
different (I don't like it, BTW). Claus Prochnow was friend of Heinz
Waaske. The known photograph about Heinz Waaske smiling and holding
and showing his small camera prototype was taken by Prochnow.

Carlos

> His last project with F&H was the Rolleimatic, after which he left the
> company (~1978, the wikipedia says), and worked as a freelance designer
> with various other camera manufacturers.
>
> hauke
>
>
> (*) Eikmann, J., Voigt, U: Kameras für Millionen, Heinz Waaske:
> Konstrukteur, Wittig 1997
>
> --
> "It's never straight up and down" (DEVO)
>
>
> ---
> Rollei List
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>
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Hauke Fath
2014-03-02 20:01:00 UTC
Permalink
At 16:30 Uhr -0500 26.2.2014, Marc James Small wrote:
>The SL 35E is a grand camera. It has a quite
>accurate meter and a marvelous lens line.

The SL35E meter is indeed a killer feature. F&H engineers managed to find
the sweet spot between integral metering (which doesn't deal well with
contrasts, requiring skilled manual intervention), and spot metering (same
requirements, for other reasons).

I had a short fling with an SLR that implemented the two extremes, the OM
2sp. And while i was a dream come true on paper, I hated what I had in my
hands. I found an affordable 3003, sold the OM to a friend, and didn't look
back.

>I would love to own a 2000F or a 3003 but I've
>never been able to afford one of these. So, I
>stand back and admire my SL 35E.

These days, 3003 bodies probably go for a third of the price of a half
decent 2,8F. For both, you'd have to add a CLA, I guess. I have had an ebay
offer bookmarked for 379 EUR (380607359071) for a while...

hauke


--
"It's never straight up and down" (DEVO)
rocketmanpm .
2014-03-02 20:49:33 UTC
Permalink
I recently dug-out my SL35E's due to an online YouTube seminar from B&H.
The guest photographer shoots wedding with mostly available light and
fisheye's. While first suspicious, he showed that judicious use of scene
elements makes for rewarding images. Having a 16mm Distagon in Rollei
mount, I'll give this a try. The cameras are quite intuitive and remind me
much of the OM-1's.


On 2 March 2014 12:01, Hauke Fath <***@espresso.rhein-neckar.de> wrote:

> At 16:30 Uhr -0500 26.2.2014, Marc James Small wrote:
> >The SL 35E is a grand camera. It has a quite
> >accurate meter and a marvelous lens line.
>
> The SL35E meter is indeed a killer feature. F&H engineers managed to find
> the sweet spot between integral metering (which doesn't deal well with
> contrasts, requiring skilled manual intervention), and spot metering (same
> requirements, for other reasons).
>
> I had a short fling with an SLR that implemented the two extremes, the OM
> 2sp. And while i was a dream come true on paper, I hated what I had in my
> hands. I found an affordable 3003, sold the OM to a friend, and didn't look
> back.
>
> >I would love to own a 2000F or a 3003 but I've
> >never been able to afford one of these. So, I
> >stand back and admire my SL 35E.
>
> These days, 3003 bodies probably go for a third of the price of a half
> decent 2,8F. For both, you'd have to add a CLA, I guess. I have had an ebay
> offer bookmarked for 379 EUR (380607359071) for a while...
>
> hauke
>
>
> --
> "It's never straight up and down" (DEVO)
>
>
> ---
> Rollei List
>
> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>
> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'subscribe'
> in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>
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> 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>
> - Online, searchable archives are available at
> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>
>


--
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themselves will not be realized."

--Daniel Burnham




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Raid
2014-03-02 22:07:24 UTC
Permalink
The 2000F is a camera with short life. It is destined to die on you,
The SL35 is the cameraw ith the second best reliability of all Rolleiflex 35mm SLR cameras.

Raid Amin

Sent from my iPad

On Mar 2, 2014, at 2:01 PM, Hauke Fath <***@Espresso.Rhein-Neckar.DE> wrote:

> At 16:30 Uhr -0500 26.2.2014, Marc James Small wrote:
>> The SL 35E is a grand camera. It has a quite
>> accurate meter and a marvelous lens line.
>
> The SL35E meter is indeed a killer feature. F&H engineers managed to find
> the sweet spot between integral metering (which doesn't deal well with
> contrasts, requiring skilled manual intervention), and spot metering (same
> requirements, for other reasons).
>
> I had a short fling with an SLR that implemented the two extremes, the OM
> 2sp. And while i was a dream come true on paper, I hated what I had in my
> hands. I found an affordable 3003, sold the OM to a friend, and didn't look
> back.
>
>> I would love to own a 2000F or a 3003 but I've
>> never been able to afford one of these. So, I
>> stand back and admire my SL 35E.
>
> These days, 3003 bodies probably go for a third of the price of a half
> decent 2,8F. For both, you'd have to add a CLA, I guess. I have had an ebay
> offer bookmarked for 379 EUR (380607359071) for a while...
>
> hauke
>
>
> --
> "It's never straight up and down" (DEVO)
>
>
> ---
> Rollei List
>
> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>
> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'subscribe'
> in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>
> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with
> 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>
> - Online, searchable archives are available at
> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>
Marc James Small
2014-03-03 06:32:19 UTC
Permalink
At 05:07 PM 3/2/2014, Raid wrote:
>The 2000F is a camera with short life. It is destined to die on you,
>The SL35 is the cameraw ith the second best reliability of all
>Rolleiflex 35mm SLR cameras.

Raod. You may well be corrrect.

Marc



***@aya.yale.edu
Cha robh bàs fir gun ghràs fir!
Raid Amin
2014-03-03 14:27:55 UTC
Permalink
My mint SL2000F suddenly died after 3 months (of no use). I sent it to KEH
Repair, who were very good about the repair issue, and they told me that
the camera had to go back to Germany for the spare parts and repair. The
company in Germany needed about 6-10 months to find a replacement main
board as my camera's board (I was told) was defective and had died. After
some negotiations, I managed to get down the repair cost from about $800 to
$450 based on KEH's quote, but then the company in Germany withdrew any
warranties because of the lower amount paid. The camera worked for another
month or so and then died again. Now, it is pretty looking and large paper
weight at home.

I am still using the Zeiss lenses for it on my M 4/3 cameras. The Zeiss
Planar 85/1.4 is superb. It has only 3 aperture blades, which somehow broke
off. So now I use it only wide open for some amazing bokeh and colors and
sharpness.
I also have a Distagon 35/1.4 and a Planar 50/1.4 and a Schneider 50/1.8
and a Zeiss 35/2.8.



Dr. Raid W. Amin
Professor of Statistics/Statistical Consultant
Department of Mathematics & Statistics
University of West Florida
Pensacola, Florida 32514, USA
Phone: (850) 474 3014




On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 12:32 AM, Marc James Small <***@comcast.net>wrote:

> At 05:07 PM 3/2/2014, Raid wrote:
> >The 2000F is a camera with short life. It is destined to die on you,
> >The SL35 is the cameraw ith the second best reliability of all
> >Rolleiflex 35mm SLR cameras.
>
> Raod. You may well be corrrect.
>
> Marc
>
>
>
> ***@aya.yale.edu
> Cha robh bàs fir gun ghràs fir!
>
>
> ---
> Rollei List
>
> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>
> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'subscribe' in the
> subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>
> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'unsubscribe' in
> the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>
> - Online, searchable archives are available at
> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>
>
Hauke Fath
2014-03-03 15:17:33 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 3 Mar 2014 08:27:55 -0600, Raid Amin wrote:

[defect SL2000F]

> The company in Germany needed about 6-10 months to find a replacement main
> board as my camera's board (I was told) was defective and had died.

Sad story.

Out of curiosity, which German repair shop was this?

Rollei fototechnic did repairs on any Braunschweig originated cameras,
which includes the 2000F, while they lasted. DHW appears to repair
anything Rollei
<http://www.dhw-fototechnik.de/de/service-reparaturen.html>, and then
there is always Paepke in Düsseldorf. I'd be surprised if the latter
two were out of spare parts for the 2000F.

Nevertheless, it is awkward to argue these things across the pond...

hauke

--
Hauke Fath <***@Espresso.Rhein-Neckar.DE>
Ernst-Ludwig-Straße 15
64625 Bensheim
Germany
Hauke Fath
2014-03-03 08:19:38 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 2 Mar 2014 16:07:24 -0600, Raid wrote:
> The 2000F is a camera with short life. It is destined to die on you,

My impression from online statements is that there is a risk of
flakiness. The major common element of the SL35E, the 2000F and the
3003 is the electronic shutter (probably Voigtländer derived?), which,
while elegant, had never really shaken its bugs out properly. It is my
understanding that Rollei Fototechnic lived off a pile of
Singapore-built shutters while continuing the 2000F and then the 3003,
and canned the 135 SLR when that pile was gone. I.e. the shutter never
was substantially improved over the late-70s state.

My personal experience with the 3003, which was my main camera for
fifteen years, includes stickiness of exposure buttons, and film
transport issues. No catastrophic failures, no "die on my hands". On
the other hand, I probably would not have had to send in, say, a Nikon
F3 for service every two or three years. And when Stiftung Warentest,
the German state consumer test institution, ran the top SLRs against
each other in the early eighties (Canon F1, Pentax LX, Nikon F3,
Rolleiflex 2000F, probably some Leica model), the Rolleiflex was the
first to drop out during long-term tests.

> The SL35 is the cameraw ith the second best reliability of all
> Rolleiflex 35mm SLR cameras.

Its appeal is certainly that it is all mechanics, thus fixable, where
the SL35E comes with a history of electronics flakiness, and there are
no solid state replacement parts.

OTOH, in terms of usability, the SL35 falls way short of the SL35E -
open aperture measurement, exposure automatics, the meter
characteristics I described.

hauke

--
Hauke Fath <***@Espresso.Rhein-Neckar.DE>
Ernst-Ludwig-Straße 15
64625 Bensheim
Germany
Cmfreaza
2014-03-03 14:13:48 UTC
Permalink
Two points(I am writing vía cell Phone from the farm): 1) Rollei electronic shutter was a Rollei development, it has a symmetric design, it means shutter drive is distributed on both shutter sides allowing to fit the lens at the exact center of the camera body, it was thought for 2000/3000 cameras but the vsl3E and Sl35 E also have the lens at the exact center of the body, an unique feature at the time. Seiko and Copal electronic shutters had the drive on one of the sides only and then the lens position was not at the exact center.
Rollei Fototechnic used the Rollei electronic shutter manufactured in the Singapore era for the 2000/3003 cameras due to the reason explained above. It would be too expensive to change the camera body design to use a Japanese electronic shutter.

2) The Rollei SL 35 _doesn't have open aperture light meter reading _, you need to press a dedicated button to close the diaphragm for the light meter. It was the SL 350 model that added open aperture metering
SL35 and SL35 E are two different cameras. The first one is a nice mechanical camera, the E is an electronic camera among the more complete of its time: shutter speeds from 1/1000 to 16 seconds, automatic or manual, two mechanical shutter x 1/125 and B, memory lock, electronic self timer, exposure compensation, film counter only works with film and you can see the frames numbers when you are rewinding the film, multiexposure capability and two motor drives were available to advance the film.

Carlos

-----Mensaje original-----
De: "Hauke Fath" <***@Espresso.Rhein-Neckar.DE>
Enviado el: ‎03/‎03/‎2014 05:27 a.m.
Para: "***@freelists.org" <***@freelists.org>
Asunto: [rollei_list] Re: Rolleiflex SL 35 E

On Sun, 2 Mar 2014 16:07:24 -0600, Raid wrote:
> The 2000F is a camera with short life. It is destined to die on you,

My impression from online statements is that there is a risk of
flakiness. The major common element of the SL35E, the 2000F and the
3003 is the electronic shutter (probably VoigtlÀnder derived?), which,
while elegant, had never really shaken its bugs out properly. It is my
understanding that Rollei Fototechnic lived off a pile of
Singapore-built shutters while continuing the 2000F and then the 3003,
and canned the 135 SLR when that pile was gone. I.e. the shutter never
was substantially improved over the late-70s state.

My personal experience with the 3003, which was my main camera for
fifteen years, includes stickiness of exposure buttons, and film
transport issues. No catastrophic failures, no "die on my hands". On
the other hand, I probably would not have had to send in, say, a Nikon
F3 for service every two or three years. And when Stiftung Warentest,
the German state consumer test institution, ran the top SLRs against
each other in the early eighties (Canon F1, Pentax LX, Nikon F3,
Rolleiflex 2000F, probably some Leica model), the Rolleiflex was the
first to drop out during long-term tests.

> The SL35 is the cameraw ith the second best reliability of all
> Rolleiflex 35mm SLR cameras.

Its appeal is certainly that it is all mechanics, thus fixable, where
the SL35E comes with a history of electronics flakiness, and there are
no solid state replacement parts.

OTOH, in terms of usability, the SL35 falls way short of the SL35E -
open aperture measurement, exposure automatics, the meter
characteristics I described.

hauke

--
Hauke Fath <***@Espresso.Rhein-Neckar.DE>
Ernst-Ludwig-Straße 15
64625 Bensheim
Germany
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Hauke Fath
2014-03-03 15:10:45 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 3 Mar 2014 11:13:48 -0300, Cmfreaza wrote:
> 1) Rollei electronic shutter was a Rollei development,

When F&H took the Voigtländer assets from Zeiss IKON's hands in the
early seventies, Voigtländer had a 135 SLR electronic shutter, and F&H
didn't - its SL350 was all mechanic.

Of course, F&H then developed the shutter into a product. Jan
Böttcher's page <http://www.janboettcher.de/MuseumR3Kam.html#KAMERA>
has drawings from F&H's patent application - along with Rollei 35
design mockups, since we talked about the 35 recently.

> 2) The Rollei SL 35 _doesn't have open aperture light meter reading
> _, you need to press a dedicated button to close the diaphragm for
> the light meter. It was the SL 350 model that added open aperture
> metering
> SL35 and SL35 E are two different cameras. [...]

Sorry if I haven't been clear enough - the listed properties

>> OTOH, in terms of usability, the SL35 falls way short of the SL35E -
>> open aperture measurement, exposure automatics, the meter
>> characteristics I described.

were those of the SL35E, which the older SL35 lacked.

Apart from that - violent agreement. :)

hauke

--
Hauke Fath <***@Espresso.Rhein-Neckar.DE>
Ernst-Ludwig-Straße 15
64625 Bensheim
Germany
Raid Amin
2014-03-03 15:12:51 UTC
Permalink
The SL350 may have been the best overall 135mm Rolleiflex SLR camera made
then.

Raid W. Amin


On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 9:10 AM, Hauke Fath
<***@espresso.rhein-neckar.de>wrote:

> On Mon, 3 Mar 2014 11:13:48 -0300, Cmfreaza wrote:
> > 1) Rollei electronic shutter was a Rollei development,
>
> When F&H took the Voigtländer assets from Zeiss IKON's hands in the
> early seventies, Voigtländer had a 135 SLR electronic shutter, and F&H
> didn't - its SL350 was all mechanic.
>
> Of course, F&H then developed the shutter into a product. Jan
> Böttcher's page <http://www.janboettcher.de/MuseumR3Kam.html#KAMERA>
> has drawings from F&H's patent application - along with Rollei 35
> design mockups, since we talked about the 35 recently.
>
> > 2) The Rollei SL 35 _doesn't have open aperture light meter reading
> > _, you need to press a dedicated button to close the diaphragm for
> > the light meter. It was the SL 350 model that added open aperture
> > metering
> > SL35 and SL35 E are two different cameras. [...]
>
> Sorry if I haven't been clear enough - the listed properties
>
> >> OTOH, in terms of usability, the SL35 falls way short of the SL35E -
> >> open aperture measurement, exposure automatics, the meter
> >> characteristics I described.
>
> were those of the SL35E, which the older SL35 lacked.
>
> Apart from that - violent agreement. :)
>
> hauke
>
> --
> Hauke Fath <***@Espresso.Rhein-Neckar.DE>
> Ernst-Ludwig-Straße 15
> 64625 Bensheim
> Germany
> ---
> Rollei List
>
> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>
> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'subscribe'
> in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
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>
> - Online, searchable archives are available at
> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>
>
Hauke Fath
2014-03-03 15:24:39 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 3 Mar 2014 09:12:51 -0600, Raid Amin wrote:
> The SL350 may have been the best overall 135mm Rolleiflex SLR camera made
> then.

Well, it still had the integral light metering, powered by a 1.35 V
mercury cell that is hard to come by, and it had the all-mechanical
horizontal cloth shutter with a sync time of 1/60th (as opposed to the
SL35E's 1/125th). And its complex design couldn't be built reliably in
Singapore, which is why F&H went with the simpler Voigtländer SLR
(SL35M/ME).

I am sure the SL350 is a great camera - if you can get one, they are
rare. But feature-wise it is not a match for the SL35E (which I am very
fond of, despite its flakiness).

hauke

--
Hauke Fath <***@Espresso.Rhein-Neckar.DE>
Ernst-Ludwig-Straße 15
64625 Bensheim
Germany
Marc James Small
2014-03-03 18:44:36 UTC
Permalink
At 09:13 AM 3/3/2014, Cmfreaza wrote:
>Two points(I am writing vía cell Phone from the
>farm): 1) Rollei electronic shutter was a Rollei
>development, it has a symmetric design, it means
>shutter drive is distributed on both shutter
>sides allowing to fit the lens at the exact
>center of the camera body, it was thought for
>2000/3000 cameras but the vsl3E and Sl35 E also
>have the lens at the exact center of the body,
>an unique feature at the time. Seiko and Copal
>electronic shutters had the drive on one of the
>sides only and then the lens position was not at the exact center.
>Rollei Fototechnic used the Rollei electronic
>shutter manufactured in the Singapore era for
>the 2000/3003 cameras due to the reason
>explained above. It would be too expensive to
>change the camera body design to use a Japanese electronic shutter.

Yes and no, Carlos. Voigtländer began working on
the development of an electronic shutter in the
late 1950's. The head of the Zeiss Foundation,
Heinz Küppenbender, demanded that Voigtländer be
merged with Zeiss Ikon so that Zeiss Ikon would
have access to this technology. (There was
another reason: the Zeiss lensworks wanted to
pick up the Voigtländer optical engineers.) The
formation of ZIV enabled Zeiss Ikon to start
developing its sequel to the Contarex, the
SL2000F. When Küppenbender retired, the Zeiss
Foundation promptly killed off Zeiss Ikon (well,
not quite -- the eyeglass line and the slide
projectors stayed around though the present
'Zett' firm actuallly uses a former Voigtländer
brand and includes both the Leica and Zeiss Ikon
slide projector lines.) At that point, cameras
under development or in production were sold
off. Rollei bought the former Icarex/SL706 and
the SL2000F lines from Zeiss Ikon. The SL2000F
came with an electronic shutter which is
identical to that used by Rollei for its version
of the camera and, later, for the SL35E and the
300X cameras.. (Nothing else makes sense: why
reinvent the wheel?) (Another firm, a consortium
known as 'Wulf' or 'Wolf' -- accounts differ --
purchased the successor to the Icarex, the SL750,
but that never entered production through a
slight misunderstanding. Wolf had thought that
Zeiss was going to pay for them to produce the
camera or, at the least, give them a
factory. Sorry about that, folks! Zeiss just
sold them the plans and the prototypes. That had
a mechanical shutter, incidentally.)

I recognize that Prochnow invested a lot of
energy trying to make a case that the Zeiss Ikon
SL2000F was of not special interest and that the
Rolleiflex SL2000 was a design unique to
Braunschweig. Well, the Rollei electronic
shutter was first conceived at the old
Voigtländer works in Braunschweig but most of the
design work was done at Stuttgart at the Zeiss
Ikon factory. I admire Prochow both for his
technical knowledge and for his devotion to the
breed but his claims about the Rolleiflex 2000
simply run against the historic record and the
technical data. As Daniel Webster once advised
the jury in a patent case -- Henry Clay was his
opposing counsel -- 'if you can show me a dime's
worth of difference, then you ought to rule
against my client'. And there is not a dime's
worth of difference between the Zeiss Ikon
electronic shutter and that used by
Rollei. (They may have used different
batteries. That bit sticks in my memory from
discussions twenty years or so ago with some of
the guys who'd worked on the development of these
cameras -- Rolleiflex not only got the cameras,
but it also got some of the engineers.)

This is hardly a major issue save to folks such as Carlos and myself.

Be at peace, Rollei folks!

Marc



***@aya.yale.edu
Cha robh bàs fir gun ghràs fir!
Cmfreaza
2014-03-03 19:35:28 UTC
Permalink
We had commented on the point Marc. The Voigtlaender electronic shutter was a _cloth shutter_ used for the SL 35 ME. The Rollei electronic shutter was a _metal shutter_ developed from 1974 by a Rollei team, I don't have the book here to give the names.
Carlos

-----Mensaje original-----
De: "Marc James Small" <***@comcast.net>
Enviado el: ‎03/‎03/‎2014 03:49 p.m.
Para: "***@freelists.org" <***@freelists.org>
Asunto: [rollei_list] Re: Rolleiflex SL 35 E

At 09:13 AM 3/3/2014, Cmfreaza wrote:
>Two points(I am writing vía cell Phone from the
>farm): 1) Rollei electronic shutter was a Rollei
>development, it has a symmetric design, it means
>shutter drive is distributed on both shutter
>sides allowing to fit the lens at the exact
>center of the camera body, it was thought for
>2000/3000 cameras but the vsl3E and Sl35 E also
>have the lens at the exact center of the body,
>an unique feature at the time. Seiko and Copal
>electronic shutters had the drive on one of the
>sides only and then the lens position was not at the exact center.
>Rollei Fototechnic used the Rollei electronic
>shutter manufactured in the Singapore era for
>the 2000/3003 cameras due to the reason
>explained above. It would be too expensive to
>change the camera body design to use a Japanese electronic shutter.

Yes and no, Carlos. VoigtlÀnder began working on
the development of an electronic shutter in the
late 1950's. The head of the Zeiss Foundation,
Heinz KÌppenbender, demanded that VoigtlÀnder be
merged with Zeiss Ikon so that Zeiss Ikon would
have access to this technology. (There was
another reason: the Zeiss lensworks wanted to
pick up the VoigtlÀnder optical engineers.) The
formation of ZIV enabled Zeiss Ikon to start
developing its sequel to the Contarex, the
SL2000F. When KÃŒppenbender retired, the Zeiss
Foundation promptly killed off Zeiss Ikon (well,
not quite -- the eyeglass line and the slide
projectors stayed around though the present
'Zett' firm actuallly uses a former VoigtlÀnder
brand and includes both the Leica and Zeiss Ikon
slide projector lines.) At that point, cameras
under development or in production were sold
off. Rollei bought the former Icarex/SL706 and
the SL2000F lines from Zeiss Ikon. The SL2000F
came with an electronic shutter which is
identical to that used by Rollei for its version
of the camera and, later, for the SL35E and the
300X cameras.. (Nothing else makes sense: why
reinvent the wheel?) (Another firm, a consortium
known as 'Wulf' or 'Wolf' -- accounts differ --
purchased the successor to the Icarex, the SL750,
but that never entered production through a
slight misunderstanding. Wolf had thought that
Zeiss was going to pay for them to produce the
camera or, at the least, give them a
factory. Sorry about that, folks! Zeiss just
sold them the plans and the prototypes. That had
a mechanical shutter, incidentally.)

I recognize that Prochnow invested a lot of
energy trying to make a case that the Zeiss Ikon
SL2000F was of not special interest and that the
Rolleiflex SL2000 was a design unique to
Braunschweig. Well, the Rollei electronic
shutter was first conceived at the old
VoigtlÀnder works in Braunschweig but most of the
design work was done at Stuttgart at the Zeiss
Ikon factory. I admire Prochow both for his
technical knowledge and for his devotion to the
breed but his claims about the Rolleiflex 2000
simply run against the historic record and the
technical data. As Daniel Webster once advised
the jury in a patent case -- Henry Clay was his
opposing counsel -- 'if you can show me a dime's
worth of difference, then you ought to rule
against my client'. And there is not a dime's
worth of difference between the Zeiss Ikon
electronic shutter and that used by
Rollei. (They may have used different
batteries. That bit sticks in my memory from
discussions twenty years or so ago with some of
the guys who'd worked on the development of these
cameras -- Rolleiflex not only got the cameras,
but it also got some of the engineers.)

This is hardly a major issue save to folks such as Carlos and myself.

Be at peace, Rollei folks!

Marc



***@aya.yale.edu
Cha robh bàs fir gun ghràs fir!

---
Rollei List

- Post to ***@freelists.org

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Marc James Small
2014-03-05 07:05:23 UTC
Permalink
At 02:35 PM 3/3/2014, Cmfreaza wrote:
>We had commented on the point Marc. The
>Voigtlaender electronic shutter was a _cloth
>shutter_ used for the SL 35 ME. The Rollei
>electronic shutter was a _metal shutter_
>developed from 1974 by a Rollei team, I don't
>have the book here to give the names.

Carlos

Zeiss Ikon -- well, the Voigtländer engineers who
had been taken over under the ZIV deal --
produced the metal shutter used in the prototype
ZI SL2000F. That shutter was fully developed by
the time Rollei took over much of the old
Voigtländer assets when Zeiss Ikon was pulled out
of camera production. Prochnow contended that
this was a Rollei development but it was not, as
Zeiss Ikon had developed it and passed it on
to Rollei when they took over much of the Zeiss
Ikon designs. Rollei picked up all rights to
these cameras, incidentally, including patent and
other intellectual property rights.

Zeiss retained the Contares but this simply led
to the Yashica Contax RTS, and Zeiss separately
sold the SL725 to Wolf, who were never able to get it into publication.

Thirty years back, I knew a number of the
engineers who had worked on these shutters, some
in person and others indirectly and a few by
mail. Their stories are consistent: the
electronic shutter was started when Voigtländer
was still an independent asset owned by the Zeiss
Foundation and then went over to be further
developed after the merger which formed Zeiss
Ikon Voigtländer, eventually leading to the one
with metal curtains intended for the abortive ZI
SL 2000F and which was then, in turn, passed on
to Rollei. F&H had a very long history with
Voigtländer dating back to its first days and so
the shutter in the Rolleiflex SL2000F and SL35E share a Rollei heritage.

I recognize Prochnow's views on this, and, of
course, nil nisi bonum mortuis. The truth is,
though, that the facts speak contrary to his
views. You might want to join the Zeiss Ikon
Collectors' Group on Yahoo! Lists and express
his position there. Be prepared to meet some
opposition, as some of our members on the ZICG
also knew these self-same engineers.

Carlos, it is always a delight to discuss
matters such as this with you. You hold your ground well.

Marc



***@aya.yale.edu
Cha robh bàs fir gun ghràs fir!
CarlosMFreaza
2014-03-05 18:31:49 UTC
Permalink
Marc:
The Rollei electronic metal focal plane shutter was unique
for its symmetric design. Prochnow does not mention Zeiss Ikon or
Voigtländer regarding the new Rollei electronic shutter, he only
mentions the engineers and designers from Rollei and those coming from
ZI/Voigtländer, working together for the K-62 project, to create a new
generation of Voigtländer and Rolleiflex electronic cameras to replace
the existent cameras. I wrote in my previous post under the subject
"Rollei electronic shutter and Rolleiflex SL 2000" the team members
names. They started to develop the new shutter after they knew about
the cubic camera with the lens at the camera body center in July 1974,
it required an _unique_ electronic metal shutter with symmetric
design, it means the components to drive the shutter are on both
sides of the shutter.

Jan Böttcher in his Rollei Report pages shows drawings for this
shutter with patent numbers:
http://www.janboettcher.de/MuseumR3eng.html (from the middle of the page)
One of the main patents is this one:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pdfs/US4110773.pdf

Erwin Scholz from Brunswick, Germany, appears as inventor and the
patent was asigned to Rollei Werke F&H. Erwin Scholz is one of the
Rollei engineers mentioned in my previous post as member of the team.
The patent is from August 29, 1978 USA and from July 22, 1976, in
Germany. Erwin Scholz, Rollei Werke, 1974-1976-1978 are saying
something.

The Rollei Report 3, more than author's views or opinions, shows facts
about the Rolleiflex SL 2000. The page 44-850 has a photograph about
the basic design PR (Prochnow Register) 571/1, it's a perfect cube
with a basis to simulate a motor, the caption comments it's the first
1974 design from arquictecture studio Franzmann in Hamburg,
"Rolleiflex" is engraved in the body. The page 44-851 shows a
photograph with frontal and lateral view about the first 1976
prototype for the SL 2000, PR 571/2, this protoype is provided with
several details "Rolleiflex" and "SL 2000" is engraved in the body.
The page 44-852 shows a photograph about the 1977 prototype from Ernst
Moeckl, the camera body is engraved with "Rolleiflex" and "SL 2000 E".
The page 44-853 shows a photograph about the "Rolleiflex SL 2000F"
and the modular system parts, each page has explanations about the
camera development.
The Rolleiflex SL 2000 has nothing or almost nothing from
ZI/Voigtländer, most internal parts were from the SL35 E and SLX .
I also find very interesting to discuss these matters with you Marc.

Carlos

2014-03-05 4:05 GMT-03:00 Marc James Small <***@comcast.net>:
> Carlos
> Zeiss Ikon -- well, the Voigtländer engineers who had been taken over under
> the ZIV deal -- produced the metal shutter used in the prototype ZI SL2000F.
> That shutter was fully developed by the time Rollei took over much of the
> old Voigtländer assets when Zeiss Ikon was pulled out of camera production.
> Prochnow contended that this was a Rollei development but it was not, as
> Zeiss Ikon had developed it and passed it on to Rollei when they took over
> much of the Zeiss Ikon designs. Rollei picked up all rights to these
> cameras, incidentally, including patent and other intellectual property
> rights.
>
> Zeiss retained the Contares but this simply led to the Yashica Contax RTS,
> and Zeiss separately sold the SL725 to Wolf, who were never able to get it
> into publication.
>
> Thirty years back, I knew a number of the engineers who had worked on these
> shutters, some in person and others indirectly and a few by mail. Their
> stories are consistent: the electronic shutter was started when Voigtländer
> was still an independent asset owned by the Zeiss Foundation and then went
> over to be further developed after the merger which formed Zeiss Ikon
> Voigtländer, eventually leading to the one with metal curtains intended for
> the abortive ZI SL 2000F and which was then, in turn, passed on to Rollei.
> F&H had a very long history with Voigtländer dating back to its first days
> and so the shutter in the Rolleiflex SL2000F and SL35E share a Rollei
> heritage.
>
> I recognize Prochnow's views on this, and, of course, nil nisi bonum
> mortuis. The truth is, though, that the facts speak contrary to his views.
> You might want to join the Zeiss Ikon Collectors' Group on Yahoo! Lists
> and express his position there. Be prepared to meet some opposition, as
> some of our members on the ZICG also knew these self-same engineers.
>
> Carlos, it is always a delight to discuss matters such as this with you.
> You hold your ground well.
>
>
> Marc
>
>
>
> ***@aya.yale.edu
> Cha robh bàs fir gun ghràs fir!
>
> ---
> Rollei List
>
> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>
> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'subscribe' in the
> subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>
> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'unsubscribe' in the
> subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>
> - Online, searchable archives are available at
> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>
Sven Keller
2014-03-05 21:03:46 UTC
Permalink
Time is on Prochnow's side, isn't it?

Any Voigtländer development of a symetrical and electronic metal shutter
would have had to have taken place *before* 1972.
If it exists, it seems strange that Rollei did not take advantage of this
development for the subsequent Rollei and Voigtländer cameras, not even for
the electronic shutter SL35ME of 1976.

And after mid 1974 Rollei certainly had an own reason to develop such a
shutter, as documented by the SL2000 design model.

So to me, Prochnow's story sounds pretty logical, and having such a
development and not using it until 1977 (VSL 3-E) and 1980 (SL2000F) does
not.

Then again, Rollei did many strange things...

Regards,

Sven



-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
[mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] Im Auftrag von CarlosMFreaza
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 5. März 2014 19:32
An: ***@freelists.org
Betreff: [rollei_list] Re: Rolleiflex SL 35 E

Marc:
The Rollei electronic metal focal plane shutter was unique for its
symmetric design. Prochnow does not mention Zeiss Ikon or Voigtländer
regarding the new Rollei electronic shutter, he only mentions the engineers
and designers from Rollei and those coming from ZI/Voigtländer, working
together for the K-62 project, to create a new generation of Voigtländer and
Rolleiflex electronic cameras to replace the existent cameras. I wrote in my
previous post under the subject "Rollei electronic shutter and Rolleiflex SL
2000" the team members names. They started to develop the new shutter after
they knew about the cubic camera with the lens at the camera body center in
July 1974, it required an _unique_ electronic metal shutter with symmetric
design, it means the components to drive the shutter are on both sides of
the shutter.

Jan Böttcher in his Rollei Report pages shows drawings for this shutter with
patent numbers:
http://www.janboettcher.de/MuseumR3eng.html (from the middle of the page)
One of the main patents is this one:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pdfs/
US4110773.pdf

Erwin Scholz from Brunswick, Germany, appears as inventor and the patent
was asigned to Rollei Werke F&H. Erwin Scholz is one of the Rollei engineers
mentioned in my previous post as member of the team.
The patent is from August 29, 1978 USA and from July 22, 1976, in Germany.
Erwin Scholz, Rollei Werke, 1974-1976-1978 are saying something.

The Rollei Report 3, more than author's views or opinions, shows facts about
the Rolleiflex SL 2000. The page 44-850 has a photograph about the basic
design PR (Prochnow Register) 571/1, it's a perfect cube with a basis to
simulate a motor, the caption comments it's the first
1974 design from arquictecture studio Franzmann in Hamburg, "Rolleiflex" is
engraved in the body. The page 44-851 shows a photograph with frontal and
lateral view about the first 1976 prototype for the SL 2000, PR 571/2, this
protoype is provided with several details "Rolleiflex" and "SL 2000" is
engraved in the body.
The page 44-852 shows a photograph about the 1977 prototype from Ernst
Moeckl, the camera body is engraved with "Rolleiflex" and "SL 2000 E".
The page 44-853 shows a photograph about the "Rolleiflex SL 2000F"
and the modular system parts, each page has explanations about the camera
development.
The Rolleiflex SL 2000 has nothing or almost nothing from ZI/Voigtländer,
most internal parts were from the SL35 E and SLX .
I also find very interesting to discuss these matters with you Marc.

Carlos

2014-03-05 4:05 GMT-03:00 Marc James Small <***@comcast.net>:
> Carlos
> Zeiss Ikon -- well, the Voigtländer engineers who had been taken over
> under the ZIV deal -- produced the metal shutter used in the prototype ZI
SL2000F.
> That shutter was fully developed by the time Rollei took over much of
> the old Voigtländer assets when Zeiss Ikon was pulled out of camera
production.
> Prochnow contended that this was a Rollei development but it was not,
> as Zeiss Ikon had developed it and passed it on to Rollei when they
> took over much of the Zeiss Ikon designs. Rollei picked up all rights
> to these cameras, incidentally, including patent and other
> intellectual property rights.
>
> Zeiss retained the Contares but this simply led to the Yashica Contax
> RTS, and Zeiss separately sold the SL725 to Wolf, who were never able
> to get it into publication.
>
> Thirty years back, I knew a number of the engineers who had worked on
> these shutters, some in person and others indirectly and a few by
> mail. Their stories are consistent: the electronic shutter was
> started when Voigtländer was still an independent asset owned by the
> Zeiss Foundation and then went over to be further developed after the
> merger which formed Zeiss Ikon Voigtländer, eventually leading to the
> one with metal curtains intended for the abortive ZI SL 2000F and which
was then, in turn, passed on to Rollei.
> F&H had a very long history with Voigtländer dating back to its first
> days and so the shutter in the Rolleiflex SL2000F and SL35E share a
> Rollei heritage.
>
> I recognize Prochnow's views on this, and, of course, nil nisi bonum
> mortuis. The truth is, though, that the facts speak contrary to his
views.
> You might want to join the Zeiss Ikon Collectors' Group on Yahoo!
> Lists and express his position there. Be prepared to meet some
> opposition, as some of our members on the ZICG also knew these self-same
engineers.
>
> Carlos, it is always a delight to discuss matters such as this with you.
> You hold your ground well.
>
>
> Marc
>
>
>
> ***@aya.yale.edu
> Cha robh bàs fir gun ghràs fir!
>
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CarlosMFreaza
2014-03-05 22:06:28 UTC
Permalink
Yes Sven, good point; why to use an electronic and mechanical mixed
cloth shutter for the SL35ME and Voigtländer VSL 2 manufactured from
September 1976 if Rollei already had an electronic metal shutter
developed before 1972 by ZI/Voigtländer. It does not make sense. The
SL35ME shutter had several problems and it's very, very rare to find
an unit working today. Facts are that the Rolleiflex and Voigtländer
cameras from ZI/Voigtländer origin no longer were manufactured from
the beginning of 1979, when appeared the VSL3 E and SL35 E with the
new Rollei symmetric electronic shutter.

Regards
Carlos

2014-03-05 18:03 GMT-03:00 Sven Keller <***@netcologne.de>:
> Time is on Prochnow's side, isn't it?
>
> Any Voigtländer development of a symetrical and electronic metal shutter
> would have had to have taken place *before* 1972.
> If it exists, it seems strange that Rollei did not take advantage of this
> development for the subsequent Rollei and Voigtländer cameras, not even for
> the electronic shutter SL35ME of 1976.
>
> And after mid 1974 Rollei certainly had an own reason to develop such a
> shutter, as documented by the SL2000 design model.
>
> So to me, Prochnow's story sounds pretty logical, and having such a
> development and not using it until 1977 (VSL 3-E) and 1980 (SL2000F) does
> not.
>
> Then again, Rollei did many strange things...
>
> Regards,
>
> Sven
>
>
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] Im Auftrag von CarlosMFreaza
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 5. März 2014 19:32
> An: ***@freelists.org
> Betreff: [rollei_list] Re: Rolleiflex SL 35 E
>
> Marc:
> The Rollei electronic metal focal plane shutter was unique for its
> symmetric design. Prochnow does not mention Zeiss Ikon or Voigtländer
> regarding the new Rollei electronic shutter, he only mentions the engineers
> and designers from Rollei and those coming from ZI/Voigtländer, working
> together for the K-62 project, to create a new generation of Voigtländer and
> Rolleiflex electronic cameras to replace the existent cameras. I wrote in my
> previous post under the subject "Rollei electronic shutter and Rolleiflex SL
> 2000" the team members names. They started to develop the new shutter after
> they knew about the cubic camera with the lens at the camera body center in
> July 1974, it required an _unique_ electronic metal shutter with symmetric
> design, it means the components to drive the shutter are on both sides of
> the shutter.
>
> Jan Böttcher in his Rollei Report pages shows drawings for this shutter with
> patent numbers:
> http://www.janboettcher.de/MuseumR3eng.html (from the middle of the page)
> One of the main patents is this one:
> https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pdfs/
> US4110773.pdf
>
> Erwin Scholz from Brunswick, Germany, appears as inventor and the patent
> was asigned to Rollei Werke F&H. Erwin Scholz is one of the Rollei engineers
> mentioned in my previous post as member of the team.
> The patent is from August 29, 1978 USA and from July 22, 1976, in Germany.
> Erwin Scholz, Rollei Werke, 1974-1976-1978 are saying something.
>
> The Rollei Report 3, more than author's views or opinions, shows facts about
> the Rolleiflex SL 2000. The page 44-850 has a photograph about the basic
> design PR (Prochnow Register) 571/1, it's a perfect cube with a basis to
> simulate a motor, the caption comments it's the first
> 1974 design from arquictecture studio Franzmann in Hamburg, "Rolleiflex" is
> engraved in the body. The page 44-851 shows a photograph with frontal and
> lateral view about the first 1976 prototype for the SL 2000, PR 571/2, this
> protoype is provided with several details "Rolleiflex" and "SL 2000" is
> engraved in the body.
> The page 44-852 shows a photograph about the 1977 prototype from Ernst
> Moeckl, the camera body is engraved with "Rolleiflex" and "SL 2000 E".
> The page 44-853 shows a photograph about the "Rolleiflex SL 2000F"
> and the modular system parts, each page has explanations about the camera
> development.
> The Rolleiflex SL 2000 has nothing or almost nothing from ZI/Voigtländer,
> most internal parts were from the SL35 E and SLX .
> I also find very interesting to discuss these matters with you Marc.
>
> Carlos
>
> 2014-03-05 4:05 GMT-03:00 Marc James Small <***@comcast.net>:
>> Carlos
>> Zeiss Ikon -- well, the Voigtländer engineers who had been taken over
>> under the ZIV deal -- produced the metal shutter used in the prototype ZI
> SL2000F.
>> That shutter was fully developed by the time Rollei took over much of
>> the old Voigtländer assets when Zeiss Ikon was pulled out of camera
> production.
>> Prochnow contended that this was a Rollei development but it was not,
>> as Zeiss Ikon had developed it and passed it on to Rollei when they
>> took over much of the Zeiss Ikon designs. Rollei picked up all rights
>> to these cameras, incidentally, including patent and other
>> intellectual property rights.
>>
>> Zeiss retained the Contares but this simply led to the Yashica Contax
>> RTS, and Zeiss separately sold the SL725 to Wolf, who were never able
>> to get it into publication.
>>
>> Thirty years back, I knew a number of the engineers who had worked on
>> these shutters, some in person and others indirectly and a few by
>> mail. Their stories are consistent: the electronic shutter was
>> started when Voigtländer was still an independent asset owned by the
>> Zeiss Foundation and then went over to be further developed after the
>> merger which formed Zeiss Ikon Voigtländer, eventually leading to the
>> one with metal curtains intended for the abortive ZI SL 2000F and which
> was then, in turn, passed on to Rollei.
>> F&H had a very long history with Voigtländer dating back to its first
>> days and so the shutter in the Rolleiflex SL2000F and SL35E share a
>> Rollei heritage.
>>
>> I recognize Prochnow's views on this, and, of course, nil nisi bonum
>> mortuis. The truth is, though, that the facts speak contrary to his
> views.
>> You might want to join the Zeiss Ikon Collectors' Group on Yahoo!
>> Lists and express his position there. Be prepared to meet some
>> opposition, as some of our members on the ZICG also knew these self-same
> engineers.
>>
>> Carlos, it is always a delight to discuss matters such as this with you.
>> You hold your ground well.
>>
>>
>> Marc
>>
>>
>>
>> ***@aya.yale.edu
>> Cha robh bàs fir gun ghràs fir!
>>
>> ---
>> Rollei List
>>
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>> the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
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>> in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>>
>> - Online, searchable archives are available at
>> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>>
> ---
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Cmfreaza
2014-03-03 19:36:35 UTC
Permalink
That info about the reasons the Sl 350 was not made in Singapore is not right. It was designed to be made in Singapore from the beginning, after the first batch made in Braunschweig to test the machinery before the transfer to Singapore. Rollei had bought Voigtlaender and several workers, technicians and engineers like Sarowski needed projects to work. Rollei management decided the Bowden cable used to transmit f stop and shutter speeds for the open aperture metering was not a good technical solution despite several Japanese manufacturers used it. This was the pretext to abort the Sl 350 project, an excellent camera from Rollei design originated in the sl35, to adapt old models from Zeiss Ikon/Voigtlaender that were a commercial failure. The situation caused serious problems between Rollei technical teams and the team coming from Voigtlaender.

Carlos

-----Mensaje original-----
De: "Hauke Fath" <***@Espresso.Rhein-Neckar.DE>
Enviado el: ‎03/‎03/‎2014 12:24 p.m.
Para: "***@freelists.org" <***@freelists.org>
Asunto: [rollei_list] Re: Rolleiflex SL 35 E

On Mon, 3 Mar 2014 09:12:51 -0600, Raid Amin wrote:
> The SL350 may have been the best overall 135mm Rolleiflex SLR camera made
> then.

Well, it still had the integral light metering, powered by a 1.35 V
mercury cell that is hard to come by, and it had the all-mechanical
horizontal cloth shutter with a sync time of 1/60th (as opposed to the
SL35E's 1/125th). And its complex design couldn't be built reliably in
Singapore, which is why F&H went with the simpler VoigtlÀnder SLR
(SL35M/ME).

I am sure the SL350 is a great camera - if you can get one, they are
rare. But feature-wise it is not a match for the SL35E (which I am very
fond of, despite its flakiness).

hauke

--
Hauke Fath <***@Espresso.Rhein-Neckar.DE>
Ernst-Ludwig-Straße 15
64625 Bensheim
Germany
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