Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker

[Jeffery Smith]

I just finished reading Ian Parker's book (for the second time...I was a
Rollei neophyte the first time I read it). I noticed this morning that there
are two copies of it for sale on e**y. If you live and breathe Rollei, it's
a good read.

Jeffery Smith
New Orleans, LA
http://www.400tx.com
http://400tx.blogspot.com/

[Douglas Nygren]

Jeffrey: I don't know this book. Tell me more about it, please.

Thanks,

Doug


On Sep 4, 2006, at 11:03 AM, Jeffery Smith wrote:

> I just finished reading Ian Parker's book (for the second time...I was
> a
> Rollei neophyte the first time I read it). I noticed this morning that
> there
> are two copies of it for sale on e**y. If you live and breathe Rollei,
> it's
> a good read.
>
> Jeffery Smith
> New Orleans, LA
> http://www.400tx.com
> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
>
>
> ---
> Rollei List
>
> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>
> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'subscribe'
> in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>
> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with
> 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>
> - Online, searchable archives are available at
> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>
>

[Jeffery Smith]

It's a history of how Rollei got started up at the turn of the 20th century
by Franke & Heidecke, their initial product line (stereo cameras) and then
the subsequent history of their TLRs (through both wars). It's a fairly
quick read, but gives you some sort of insight into how large the company
grew, when it reached its pinnacle, and how the SLR ultimately brought it
down. A nice overview of the company's history with only one unfortunately
"black eye" that occurred around WWII.

Jeffery Smith
New Orleans, LA
http://www.400tx.com
http://400tx.blogspot.com/



-----Original Message-----
From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
[mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Nygren
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 12:16 PM
To: ***@freelists.org
Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker


Jeffrey: I don't know this book. Tell me more about it, please.

Thanks,

Doug


On Sep 4, 2006, at 11:03 AM, Jeffery Smith wrote:

> I just finished reading Ian Parker's book (for the second time...I was
> a
> Rollei neophyte the first time I read it). I noticed this morning that
> there
> are two copies of it for sale on e**y. If you live and breathe Rollei,
> it's
> a good read.
>
> Jeffery Smith
> New Orleans, LA
> http://www.400tx.com
> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
>
>
> ---
> Rollei List
>
> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>
> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'subscribe' in
> the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>
> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'unsubscribe'
> in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>
> - Online, searchable archives are available at
> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>
>

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[todd belcher]

For those of you with an interest in the Rollei TLR history, I have
pictures of a Rollei TLR prototype from 1928 here:

http://www.rollei-gallery.net/-todd/image-59055.html

In the Parker book this is mentioned on page 52 and in the back pg
174. Prochnow (PR 050) has a picture of the one as well on pg 7-162.
Originally there were 10 of these prototypes made in 1928 and given
out to distributors and photographers of the day to get feedback on
the design before production was to begin. Prochnow goes into detail
on pgs 7-155 and 7-156 that the focusing mechanism was not optimal in
the prototypes allowing the lenses to wobble - in the prototype only
the finder and taking lenses (taking lens along with shutter) move in
and out when focusing - not the whole front of the camera - the front
stays where it is. This was corrected in the subsequent production
cameras creating a much more stable platform for the lenses. The
physical, visual result of this is, the prototype can easily be
distinguished from the production cameras by just looking at the
front cover - there are four screws in the corner of the front cover
of the prototype that secures it to the camera body. In the
production cameras, there are three screws clustered around taking
lens that actually secure the drive gears underneath the front cover.

Prochnow also states that he is only aware of one of these prototypes
extant and that was bought by the City Museum of Braunschweig in
1981. I found this one on ebay a few years ago. I was not able to
trace it's history as the family that was selling it could not
provide much info. I was told the US soldier (her father) had served
in WWII in Germany and he had died in the mid 70s. What division, or
where he was stationed was not known.

todd



On 4-Sep-06, at 10:25 AM, Jeffery Smith wrote:

> It's a history of how Rollei got started up at the turn of the 20th
> century
> by Franke & Heidecke, their initial product line (stereo cameras)
> and then
> the subsequent history of their TLRs (through both wars). It's a
> fairly
> quick read, but gives you some sort of insight into how large the
> company
> grew, when it reached its pinnacle, and how the SLR ultimately
> brought it
> down. A nice overview of the company's history with only one
> unfortunately
> "black eye" that occurred around WWII.
>
> Jeffery Smith
> New Orleans, LA
> http://www.400tx.com
> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Nygren
> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 12:16 PM
> To: ***@freelists.org
> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker
>
>
> Jeffrey: I don't know this book. Tell me more about it, please.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Doug
>
>
> On Sep 4, 2006, at 11:03 AM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
>
>> I just finished reading Ian Parker's book (for the second time...I
>> was
>> a
>> Rollei neophyte the first time I read it). I noticed this morning
>> that
>> there
>> are two copies of it for sale on e**y. If you live and breathe
>> Rollei,
>> it's
>> a good read.
>>
>> Jeffery Smith
>> New Orleans, LA
>> http://www.400tx.com
>> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Rollei List
>>
>> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>>
>> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'subscribe' in
>> the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>>
>> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'unsubscribe'
>> in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>>
>> - Online, searchable archives are available at
>> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>>
>>
>
> ---
> Rollei List
>
> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>
> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'subscribe'
> in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
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> 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into
> www.freelists.org
>
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>
>
>
> ---
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>
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> 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into
> www.freelists.org
>
> - Online, searchable archives are available at
> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>

[Antonio Garcia Russell]

Thanks Todd. That is very interesting and nice to see an image of the
prototype. I now know what to look out for if another pops up on
eBay.... :-)

Antonio


On 4 Sep 2006, at 21:08, todd belcher wrote:

> For those of you with an interest in the Rollei TLR history, I have
> pictures of a Rollei TLR prototype from 1928 here:
>
> http://www.rollei-gallery.net/-todd/image-59055.html
>
> In the Parker book this is mentioned on page 52 and in the back pg
> 174. Prochnow (PR 050) has a picture of the one as well on pg
> 7-162. Originally there were 10 of these prototypes made in 1928
> and given out to distributors and photographers of the day to get
> feedback on the design before production was to begin. Prochnow
> goes into detail on pgs 7-155 and 7-156 that the focusing mechanism
> was not optimal in the prototypes allowing the lenses to wobble -
> in the prototype only the finder and taking lenses (taking lens
> along with shutter) move in and out when focusing - not the whole
> front of the camera - the front stays where it is. This was
> corrected in the subsequent production cameras creating a much more
> stable platform for the lenses. The physical, visual result of this
> is, the prototype can easily be distinguished from the production
> cameras by just looking at the front cover - there are four screws
> in the corner of the front cover of the prototype that secures it
> to the camera body. In the production cameras, there are three
> screws clustered around taking lens that actually secure the drive
> gears underneath the front cover.
>
> Prochnow also states that he is only aware of one of these
> prototypes extant and that was bought by the City Museum of
> Braunschweig in 1981. I found this one on ebay a few years ago. I
> was not able to trace it's history as the family that was selling
> it could not provide much info. I was told the US soldier (her
> father) had served in WWII in Germany and he had died in the mid
> 70s. What division, or where he was stationed was not known.
>
> todd
>
>
>
> On 4-Sep-06, at 10:25 AM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
>
>> It's a history of how Rollei got started up at the turn of the
>> 20th century
>> by Franke & Heidecke, their initial product line (stereo cameras)
>> and then
>> the subsequent history of their TLRs (through both wars). It's a
>> fairly
>> quick read, but gives you some sort of insight into how large the
>> company
>> grew, when it reached its pinnacle, and how the SLR ultimately
>> brought it
>> down. A nice overview of the company's history with only one
>> unfortunately
>> "black eye" that occurred around WWII.
>>
>> Jeffery Smith
>> New Orleans, LA
>> http://www.400tx.com
>> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
>> [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Nygren
>> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 12:16 PM
>> To: ***@freelists.org
>> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker
>>
>>
>> Jeffrey: I don't know this book. Tell me more about it, please.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Doug
>>
>>
>> On Sep 4, 2006, at 11:03 AM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
>>
>>> I just finished reading Ian Parker's book (for the second
>>> time...I was
>>> a
>>> Rollei neophyte the first time I read it). I noticed this morning
>>> that
>>> there
>>> are two copies of it for sale on e**y. If you live and breathe
>>> Rollei,
>>> it's
>>> a good read.
>>>
>>> Jeffery Smith
>>> New Orleans, LA
>>> http://www.400tx.com
>>> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Rollei List
>>>
>>> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>>>
>>> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'subscribe' in
>>> the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>>>
>>> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with
>>> 'unsubscribe'
>>> in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>>>
>>> - Online, searchable archives are available at
>>> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---
>> Rollei List
>>
>> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>>
>> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'subscribe'
>> in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>>
>> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with
>> 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into
>> www.freelists.org
>>
>> - Online, searchable archives are available at
>> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
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>>
>> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>>
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>> in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>>
>> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with
>> 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into
>> www.freelists.org
>>
>> - Online, searchable archives are available at
>> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>>
>
> ---
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>
> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>
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> www.freelists.org
>
> - Online, searchable archives are available at
> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>

[Philip Leeson]

And while you're at it, Parker's Rollei TLR Collector's Guide is also
good.
ISBN 1-874031-95-9
Phil
On Sep 4, 2006, at 12:25 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:

> It's a history of how Rollei got started up at the turn of the 20th
> century
> by Franke & Heidecke, their initial product line (stereo cameras)
> and then
> the subsequent history of their TLRs (through both wars). It's a
> fairly
> quick read, but gives you some sort of insight into how large the
> company
> grew, when it reached its pinnacle, and how the SLR ultimately
> brought it
> down. A nice overview of the company's history with only one
> unfortunately
> "black eye" that occurred around WWII.
>
> Jeffery Smith
> New Orleans, LA
> http://www.400tx.com
> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Nygren
> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 12:16 PM
> To: ***@freelists.org
> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker
>
>
> Jeffrey: I don't know this book. Tell me more about it, please.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Doug
>

[Douglas Nygren]

Thank you for the overview. What is the name of the book and the
author's full name?

What was the black eye?
Doug



On Sep 4, 2006, at 1:25 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:

> It's a history of how Rollei got started up at the turn of the 20th
> century
> by Franke & Heidecke, their initial product line (stereo cameras) and
> then
> the subsequent history of their TLRs (through both wars). It's a fairly
> quick read, but gives you some sort of insight into how large the
> company
> grew, when it reached its pinnacle, and how the SLR ultimately brought
> it
> down. A nice overview of the company's history with only one
> unfortunately
> "black eye" that occurred around WWII.
>
> Jeffery Smith
> New Orleans, LA
> http://www.400tx.com
> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Nygren
> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 12:16 PM
> To: ***@freelists.org
> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker
>
>
> Jeffrey: I don't know this book. Tell me more about it, please.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Doug
>
>
> On Sep 4, 2006, at 11:03 AM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
>
>> I just finished reading Ian Parker's book (for the second time...I was
>> a
>> Rollei neophyte the first time I read it). I noticed this morning that
>> there
>> are two copies of it for sale on e**y. If you live and breathe Rollei,
>> it's
>> a good read.
>>
>> Jeffery Smith
>> New Orleans, LA
>> http://www.400tx.com
>> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Rollei List
>>
>> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>>
>> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'subscribe' in
>> the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>>
>> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'unsubscribe'
>> in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>>
>> - Online, searchable archives are available at
>> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>>
>>
>
> ---
> Rollei List
>
> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>
> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'subscribe'
> in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>
> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with
> 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>
> - Online, searchable archives are available at
> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>
>
>
> ---
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>
> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>
> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'subscribe'
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> 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>
> - Online, searchable archives are available at
> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>
>

[Jeffery Smith]

Rollei TLR: The History : The Complete Book on the Origins of Twin-Lens
Photography
by Ian Parker

The black eye: When Rollei was working on the prototypes for a 9x9 studio
camera, a rather pro-Nazi Rolleiflex had a professional photographer take
Hitler's portrait with one of them for use in creating some postage stamps
wit the Fuhrer's likeness. When it was discovered that the photographer was
Jewish, everyone panicked, the photographer was later carted off, and the
studio camera project was scuttled.

Jeffery Smith
New Orleans, LA
http://www.400tx.com
http://400tx.blogspot.com/



-----Original Message-----
From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
[mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Nygren
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 4:56 PM
To: ***@freelists.org
Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker


Thank you for the overview. What is the name of the book and the
author's full name?

What was the black eye?
Doug



On Sep 4, 2006, at 1:25 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:

> It's a history of how Rollei got started up at the turn of the 20th
> century
> by Franke & Heidecke, their initial product line (stereo cameras) and
> then
> the subsequent history of their TLRs (through both wars). It's a fairly
> quick read, but gives you some sort of insight into how large the
> company
> grew, when it reached its pinnacle, and how the SLR ultimately brought
> it
> down. A nice overview of the company's history with only one
> unfortunately
> "black eye" that occurred around WWII.
>
> Jeffery Smith
> New Orleans, LA
> http://www.400tx.com
> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Nygren
> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 12:16 PM
> To: ***@freelists.org
> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker
>
>
> Jeffrey: I don't know this book. Tell me more about it, please.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Doug
>
>
> On Sep 4, 2006, at 11:03 AM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
>
>> I just finished reading Ian Parker's book (for the second time...I
>> was a Rollei neophyte the first time I read it). I noticed this
>> morning that there
>> are two copies of it for sale on e**y. If you live and breathe Rollei,
>> it's
>> a good read.
>>
>> Jeffery Smith
>> New Orleans, LA
>> http://www.400tx.com
>> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Rollei List
>>
>> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>>
>> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'subscribe' in
>> the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>>
>> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'unsubscribe'
>> in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>>
>> - Online, searchable archives are available at
>> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>>
>>
>
> ---
> Rollei List
>
> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>
> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'subscribe' in
> the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>
> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'unsubscribe'
> in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>
> - Online, searchable archives are available at
> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>
>
>
> ---
> Rollei List
>
> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>
> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'subscribe' in
> the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>
> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'unsubscribe'
> in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>
> - Online, searchable archives are available at
> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>
>

---
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[Douglas Nygren]

Thank you for all the information.

Doug


On Sep 4, 2006, at 6:12 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:

> Rollei TLR: The History : The Complete Book on the Origins of Twin-Lens
> Photography
> by Ian Parker
>
> The black eye: When Rollei was working on the prototypes for a 9x9
> studio
> camera, a rather pro-Nazi Rolleiflex had a professional photographer
> take
> Hitler's portrait with one of them for use in creating some postage
> stamps
> wit the Fuhrer's likeness. When it was discovered that the
> photographer was
> Jewish, everyone panicked, the photographer was later carted off, and
> the
> studio camera project was scuttled.
>
> Jeffery Smith
> New Orleans, LA
> http://www.400tx.com
> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Nygren
> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 4:56 PM
> To: ***@freelists.org
> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker
>
>
> Thank you for the overview. What is the name of the book and the
> author's full name?
>
> What was the black eye?
> Doug
>
>
>
> On Sep 4, 2006, at 1:25 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
>
>> It's a history of how Rollei got started up at the turn of the 20th
>> century
>> by Franke & Heidecke, their initial product line (stereo cameras) and
>> then
>> the subsequent history of their TLRs (through both wars). It's a
>> fairly
>> quick read, but gives you some sort of insight into how large the
>> company
>> grew, when it reached its pinnacle, and how the SLR ultimately brought
>> it
>> down. A nice overview of the company's history with only one
>> unfortunately
>> "black eye" that occurred around WWII.
>>
>> Jeffery Smith
>> New Orleans, LA
>> http://www.400tx.com
>> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
>> [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Nygren
>> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 12:16 PM
>> To: ***@freelists.org
>> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker
>>
>>
>> Jeffrey: I don't know this book. Tell me more about it, please.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Doug
>>
>>
>> On Sep 4, 2006, at 11:03 AM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
>>
>>> I just finished reading Ian Parker's book (for the second time...I
>>> was a Rollei neophyte the first time I read it). I noticed this
>>> morning that there
>>> are two copies of it for sale on e**y. If you live and breathe
>>> Rollei,
>>> it's
>>> a good read.
>>>
>>> Jeffery Smith
>>> New Orleans, LA
>>> http://www.400tx.com
>>> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Rollei List
>>>
>>> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>>>
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>>> in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
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>>> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---
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>> in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
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>> in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
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>> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
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>>
>
> ---
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> 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
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> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
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>
>
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>
>

[Carlos Manuel Freaza]

Prochnow tells that story maybe a bit different, he
mentions Ian Parker's book "Rollei TLR-The history".
F&H was working on the 9x9 third protoype, they did
only fourteen of these prototypes from hand-made
parts. The first prototype went to the photographer
Salomon Kahn who used it to photograph Adolf Hitler.
Kahn exhibited these photographs taken with the 9x9
prototype successfully, however the photographs
started to disappear when it became known that Kahn
was a jew, he soon died in a concentration camp, but
it was a Gestapo action, it was not F&H action.
F&H began to develop larger format cameras on 1930
before the nazi era with the 7x9 prototype.-

All the best
Carlos
--- Jeffery Smith <***@runbox.com> escribió:

> Rollei TLR: The History : The Complete Book on the
> Origins of Twin-Lens
> Photography
> by Ian Parker
>
> The black eye: When Rollei was working on the
> prototypes for a 9x9 studio
> camera, a rather pro-Nazi Rolleiflex had a
> professional photographer take
> Hitler's portrait with one of them for use in
> creating some postage stamps
> wit the Fuhrer's likeness. When it was discovered
> that the photographer was
> Jewish, everyone panicked, the photographer was
> later carted off, and the
> studio camera project was scuttled.
>
> Jeffery Smith
> New Orleans, LA
> http://www.400tx.com
> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf
> Of Douglas Nygren
> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 4:56 PM
> To: ***@freelists.org
> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History
> by Ian Parker
>
>
> Thank you for the overview. What is the name of the
> book and the
> author's full name?
>
> What was the black eye?
> Doug
>
>
>
> On Sep 4, 2006, at 1:25 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
>
> > It's a history of how Rollei got started up at the
> turn of the 20th
> > century
> > by Franke & Heidecke, their initial product line
> (stereo cameras) and
> > then
> > the subsequent history of their TLRs (through both
> wars). It's a fairly
> > quick read, but gives you some sort of insight
> into how large the
> > company
> > grew, when it reached its pinnacle, and how the
> SLR ultimately brought
> > it
> > down. A nice overview of the company's history
> with only one
> > unfortunately
> > "black eye" that occurred around WWII.
> >
> > Jeffery Smith
> > New Orleans, LA
> > http://www.400tx.com
> > http://400tx.blogspot.com/
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> > [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On
> Behalf Of Douglas Nygren
> > Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 12:16 PM
> > To: ***@freelists.org
> > Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The
> History by Ian Parker
> >
> >
> > Jeffrey: I don't know this book. Tell me more
> about it, please.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Doug
> >
> >
> > On Sep 4, 2006, at 11:03 AM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
> >
> >> I just finished reading Ian Parker's book (for
> the second time...I
> >> was a Rollei neophyte the first time I read it).
> I noticed this
> >> morning that there
> >> are two copies of it for sale on e**y. If you
> live and breathe Rollei,
> >> it's
> >> a good read.
> >>
> >> Jeffery Smith
> >> New Orleans, LA
> >> http://www.400tx.com
> >> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
> >>
> >>
> >> ---
> >> Rollei List
> >>
> >> - Post to ***@freelists.org
> >>
> >> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> with 'subscribe' in
> >> the subject field OR by logging into
> www.freelists.org
> >>
> >> - Unsubscribe at
> rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'unsubscribe'
>
> >> in the subject field OR by logging into
> www.freelists.org
> >>
> >> - Online, searchable archives are available at
> >> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
> >>
> >>
> >
> > ---
> > Rollei List
> >
> > - Post to ***@freelists.org
> >
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> with 'subscribe' in
> > the subject field OR by logging into
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> with 'unsubscribe'
> > in the subject field OR by logging into
> www.freelists.org
> >
> > - Online, searchable archives are available at
> > http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Rollei List
> >
> > - Post to ***@freelists.org
> >
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> with 'unsubscribe'
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> >
> > - Online, searchable archives are available at
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> >
> >
>
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>
>
> ---
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> into
=== message truncated ===






__________________________________________________
Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí.
Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas,
está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta).
¡Probalo ya!
http://www.yahoo.com.ar/respuestas

[Jeffery Smith]

No, it wasn't a matter of F&H turning him in. Soon after the incident he
disappeared with other Jews to a concentration camp. I think the embarrasing
part was probably inadvertently involving a Jewish photographer in the
picture shoot after being supportive of the Nazi party.

I also wonder if the Theodore/Rolleiflex T incident really resulted in the
man being fired or if his sudden departure was unrelated.

Jeffery Smith
New Orleans, LA
http://www.400tx.com
http://400tx.blogspot.com/



-----Original Message-----
From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
[mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Carlos Manuel Freaza
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 7:58 PM
To: ***@freelists.org
Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker


Prochnow tells that story maybe a bit different, he
mentions Ian Parker's book "Rollei TLR-The history".
F&H was working on the 9x9 third protoype, they did
only fourteen of these prototypes from hand-made
parts. The first prototype went to the photographer
Salomon Kahn who used it to photograph Adolf Hitler.
Kahn exhibited these photographs taken with the 9x9
prototype successfully, however the photographs
started to disappear when it became known that Kahn
was a jew, he soon died in a concentration camp, but
it was a Gestapo action, it was not F&H action.
F&H began to develop larger format cameras on 1930
before the nazi era with the 7x9 prototype.-

All the best
Carlos
--- Jeffery Smith <***@runbox.com> escribió:

> Rollei TLR: The History : The Complete Book on the
> Origins of Twin-Lens
> Photography
> by Ian Parker
>
> The black eye: When Rollei was working on the
> prototypes for a 9x9 studio
> camera, a rather pro-Nazi Rolleiflex had a
> professional photographer take
> Hitler's portrait with one of them for use in
> creating some postage stamps
> wit the Fuhrer's likeness. When it was discovered
> that the photographer was
> Jewish, everyone panicked, the photographer was
> later carted off, and the
> studio camera project was scuttled.
>
> Jeffery Smith
> New Orleans, LA
> http://www.400tx.com
> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Nygren
> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 4:56 PM
> To: ***@freelists.org
> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History
> by Ian Parker
>
>
> Thank you for the overview. What is the name of the
> book and the
> author's full name?
>
> What was the black eye?
> Doug
>
>
>
> On Sep 4, 2006, at 1:25 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
>
> > It's a history of how Rollei got started up at the
> turn of the 20th
> > century
> > by Franke & Heidecke, their initial product line
> (stereo cameras) and
> > then
> > the subsequent history of their TLRs (through both
> wars). It's a fairly
> > quick read, but gives you some sort of insight
> into how large the
> > company
> > grew, when it reached its pinnacle, and how the
> SLR ultimately brought
> > it
> > down. A nice overview of the company's history
> with only one
> > unfortunately
> > "black eye" that occurred around WWII.
> >
> > Jeffery Smith
> > New Orleans, LA
> > http://www.400tx.com
> > http://400tx.blogspot.com/
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> > [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On
> Behalf Of Douglas Nygren
> > Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 12:16 PM
> > To: ***@freelists.org
> > Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The
> History by Ian Parker
> >
> >
> > Jeffrey: I don't know this book. Tell me more
> about it, please.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Doug
> >
> >
> > On Sep 4, 2006, at 11:03 AM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
> >
> >> I just finished reading Ian Parker's book (for
> the second time...I
> >> was a Rollei neophyte the first time I read it).
> I noticed this
> >> morning that there
> >> are two copies of it for sale on e**y. If you
> live and breathe Rollei,
> >> it's
> >> a good read.
> >>
> >> Jeffery Smith
> >> New Orleans, LA
> >> http://www.400tx.com
> >> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
> >>
> >>
> >> ---
> >> Rollei List
> >>
> >> - Post to ***@freelists.org
> >>
> >> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> with 'subscribe' in
> >> the subject field OR by logging into
> www.freelists.org
> >>
> >> - Unsubscribe at
> rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'unsubscribe'
>
> >> in the subject field OR by logging into
> www.freelists.org
> >>
> >> - Online, searchable archives are available at
> >> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
> >>
> >>
> >
> > ---
> > Rollei List
> >
> > - Post to ***@freelists.org
> >
> > - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> with 'subscribe' in
> > the subject field OR by logging into
> www.freelists.org
> >
> > - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> with 'unsubscribe'
> > in the subject field OR by logging into
> www.freelists.org
> >
> > - Online, searchable archives are available at
> > http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Rollei List
> >
> > - Post to ***@freelists.org
> >
> > - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> with 'subscribe' in
> > the subject field OR by logging into
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> >
> > - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> with 'unsubscribe'
> > in the subject field OR by logging into
> www.freelists.org
> >
> > - Online, searchable archives are available at
> > http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
> >
> >
>
> ---
> Rollei List
>
> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>
> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
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> in the subject field OR by logging into
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>
> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> with
> 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging
> into www.freelists.org
>
> - Online, searchable archives are available at
> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>
>
>
> ---
> Rollei List
>
> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>
> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
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> into
=== message truncated ===






__________________________________________________
Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí.
Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas,
está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta).
¡Probalo ya!
http://www.yahoo.com.ar/respuestas

---
Rollei List

- Post to ***@freelists.org

- Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'subscribe'
in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org

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- Online, searchable archives are available at
http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list

[Marvin Wallace]

Jeffrey,
Embarrassing, from whose perspective, the Nazis or Mr. Kahn's? Also who was
supportive of the Nazi party? Please clarify.

-----Original Message-----
From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
[mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Jeffery Smith
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 9:25 AM
To: ***@freelists.org
Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker

No, it wasn't a matter of F&H turning him in. Soon after the incident he
disappeared with other Jews to a concentration camp. I think the embarrasing
part was probably inadvertently involving a Jewish photographer in the
picture shoot after being supportive of the Nazi party.

I also wonder if the Theodore/Rolleiflex T incident really resulted in the
man being fired or if his sudden departure was unrelated.

Jeffery Smith
New Orleans, LA
http://www.400tx.com
http://400tx.blogspot.com/



-----Original Message-----
From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
[mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Carlos Manuel Freaza
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 7:58 PM
To: ***@freelists.org
Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker


Prochnow tells that story maybe a bit different, he
mentions Ian Parker's book "Rollei TLR-The history".
F&H was working on the 9x9 third protoype, they did
only fourteen of these prototypes from hand-made
parts. The first prototype went to the photographer
Salomon Kahn who used it to photograph Adolf Hitler.
Kahn exhibited these photographs taken with the 9x9
prototype successfully, however the photographs
started to disappear when it became known that Kahn
was a jew, he soon died in a concentration camp, but
it was a Gestapo action, it was not F&H action.
F&H began to develop larger format cameras on 1930
before the nazi era with the 7x9 prototype.-

All the best
Carlos
--- Jeffery Smith <***@runbox.com> escribió:

> Rollei TLR: The History : The Complete Book on the
> Origins of Twin-Lens
> Photography
> by Ian Parker
>
> The black eye: When Rollei was working on the
> prototypes for a 9x9 studio
> camera, a rather pro-Nazi Rolleiflex had a
> professional photographer take
> Hitler's portrait with one of them for use in
> creating some postage stamps
> wit the Fuhrer's likeness. When it was discovered
> that the photographer was
> Jewish, everyone panicked, the photographer was
> later carted off, and the
> studio camera project was scuttled.
>
> Jeffery Smith
> New Orleans, LA
> http://www.400tx.com
> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Nygren
> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 4:56 PM
> To: ***@freelists.org
> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History
> by Ian Parker
>
>
> Thank you for the overview. What is the name of the
> book and the
> author's full name?
>
> What was the black eye?
> Doug
>
>
>
> On Sep 4, 2006, at 1:25 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
>
> > It's a history of how Rollei got started up at the
> turn of the 20th
> > century
> > by Franke & Heidecke, their initial product line
> (stereo cameras) and
> > then
> > the subsequent history of their TLRs (through both
> wars). It's a fairly
> > quick read, but gives you some sort of insight
> into how large the
> > company
> > grew, when it reached its pinnacle, and how the
> SLR ultimately brought
> > it
> > down. A nice overview of the company's history
> with only one
> > unfortunately
> > "black eye" that occurred around WWII.
> >
> > Jeffery Smith
> > New Orleans, LA
> > http://www.400tx.com
> > http://400tx.blogspot.com/
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> > [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On
> Behalf Of Douglas Nygren
> > Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 12:16 PM
> > To: ***@freelists.org
> > Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The
> History by Ian Parker
> >
> >
> > Jeffrey: I don't know this book. Tell me more
> about it, please.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Doug
> >
> >
> > On Sep 4, 2006, at 11:03 AM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
> >
> >> I just finished reading Ian Parker's book (for
> the second time...I
> >> was a Rollei neophyte the first time I read it).
> I noticed this
> >> morning that there
> >> are two copies of it for sale on e**y. If you
> live and breathe Rollei,
> >> it's
> >> a good read.
> >>
> >> Jeffery Smith
> >> New Orleans, LA
> >> http://www.400tx.com
> >> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
> >>
> >>
> >> ---
> >> Rollei List
> >>
> >> - Post to ***@freelists.org
> >>
> >> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> with 'subscribe' in
> >> the subject field OR by logging into
> www.freelists.org
> >>
> >> - Unsubscribe at
> rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'unsubscribe'
>
> >> in the subject field OR by logging into
> www.freelists.org
> >>
> >> - Online, searchable archives are available at
> >> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
> >>
> >>
> >
> > ---
> > Rollei List
> >
> > - Post to ***@freelists.org
> >
> > - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> with 'subscribe' in
> > the subject field OR by logging into
> www.freelists.org
> >
> > - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> with 'unsubscribe'
> > in the subject field OR by logging into
> www.freelists.org
> >
> > - Online, searchable archives are available at
> > http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Rollei List
> >
> > - Post to ***@freelists.org
> >
> > - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> with 'subscribe' in
> > the subject field OR by logging into
> www.freelists.org
> >
> > - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> with 'unsubscribe'
> > in the subject field OR by logging into
> www.freelists.org
> >
> > - Online, searchable archives are available at
> > http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
> >
> >
>
> ---
> Rollei List
>
> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>
> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> with 'subscribe'
> in the subject field OR by logging into
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> with
> 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging
> into www.freelists.org
>
> - Online, searchable archives are available at
> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>
>
>
> ---
> Rollei List
>
> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>
> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
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> in the subject field OR by logging into
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> with
> 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging
> into
=== message truncated ===






__________________________________________________
Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí.
Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas,
está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta).
¡Probalo ya!
http://www.yahoo.com.ar/respuestas

---
Rollei List

- Post to ***@freelists.org

- Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'subscribe'
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---
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[Jeffery Smith]

Rollei, like many other corporations in the 30's, were supportive of the
Nazi party prior to the war. When the war was over, they resented the
British occupation at first, but warmed up to them after interacting with
the British for a while. I think that Rollei was embarassed over having
utilized a Jewish photographer for Hitler's photo shoot as it would raise
eyebrows.

Jeffery Smith
New Orleans, LA
http://www.400tx.com
http://400tx.blogspot.com/



-----Original Message-----
From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
[mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Marvin Wallace
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 8:43 PM
To: ***@freelists.org
Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker


Jeffrey,
Embarrassing, from whose perspective, the Nazis or Mr. Kahn's? Also who was
supportive of the Nazi party? Please clarify.

-----Original Message-----
From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
[mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Jeffery Smith
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 9:25 AM
To: ***@freelists.org
Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker

No, it wasn't a matter of F&H turning him in. Soon after the incident he
disappeared with other Jews to a concentration camp. I think the embarrasing
part was probably inadvertently involving a Jewish photographer in the
picture shoot after being supportive of the Nazi party.

I also wonder if the Theodore/Rolleiflex T incident really resulted in the
man being fired or if his sudden departure was unrelated.

Jeffery Smith
New Orleans, LA
http://www.400tx.com
http://400tx.blogspot.com/



-----Original Message-----
From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
[mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Carlos Manuel Freaza
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 7:58 PM
To: ***@freelists.org
Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker


Prochnow tells that story maybe a bit different, he
mentions Ian Parker's book "Rollei TLR-The history".
F&H was working on the 9x9 third protoype, they did
only fourteen of these prototypes from hand-made
parts. The first prototype went to the photographer
Salomon Kahn who used it to photograph Adolf Hitler.
Kahn exhibited these photographs taken with the 9x9
prototype successfully, however the photographs
started to disappear when it became known that Kahn
was a jew, he soon died in a concentration camp, but
it was a Gestapo action, it was not F&H action.
F&H began to develop larger format cameras on 1930
before the nazi era with the 7x9 prototype.-

All the best
Carlos
--- Jeffery Smith <***@runbox.com> escribió:

> Rollei TLR: The History : The Complete Book on the
> Origins of Twin-Lens
> Photography
> by Ian Parker
>
> The black eye: When Rollei was working on the
> prototypes for a 9x9 studio
> camera, a rather pro-Nazi Rolleiflex had a
> professional photographer take
> Hitler's portrait with one of them for use in
> creating some postage stamps
> wit the Fuhrer's likeness. When it was discovered
> that the photographer was
> Jewish, everyone panicked, the photographer was
> later carted off, and the
> studio camera project was scuttled.
>
> Jeffery Smith
> New Orleans, LA
> http://www.400tx.com
> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Nygren
> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 4:56 PM
> To: ***@freelists.org
> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History
> by Ian Parker
>
>
> Thank you for the overview. What is the name of the
> book and the
> author's full name?
>
> What was the black eye?
> Doug
>
>
>
> On Sep 4, 2006, at 1:25 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
>
> > It's a history of how Rollei got started up at the
> turn of the 20th
> > century
> > by Franke & Heidecke, their initial product line
> (stereo cameras) and
> > then
> > the subsequent history of their TLRs (through both
> wars). It's a fairly
> > quick read, but gives you some sort of insight
> into how large the
> > company
> > grew, when it reached its pinnacle, and how the
> SLR ultimately brought
> > it
> > down. A nice overview of the company's history
> with only one
> > unfortunately
> > "black eye" that occurred around WWII.
> >
> > Jeffery Smith
> > New Orleans, LA
> > http://www.400tx.com
> > http://400tx.blogspot.com/
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> > [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On
> Behalf Of Douglas Nygren
> > Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 12:16 PM
> > To: ***@freelists.org
> > Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The
> History by Ian Parker
> >
> >
> > Jeffrey: I don't know this book. Tell me more
> about it, please.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Doug
> >
> >
> > On Sep 4, 2006, at 11:03 AM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
> >
> >> I just finished reading Ian Parker's book (for
> the second time...I
> >> was a Rollei neophyte the first time I read it).
> I noticed this
> >> morning that there
> >> are two copies of it for sale on e**y. If you
> live and breathe Rollei,
> >> it's
> >> a good read.
> >>
> >> Jeffery Smith
> >> New Orleans, LA
> >> http://www.400tx.com
> >> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
> >>
> >>
> >> ---
> >> Rollei List
> >>
> >> - Post to ***@freelists.org
> >>
> >> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> with 'subscribe' in
> >> the subject field OR by logging into
> www.freelists.org
> >>
> >> - Unsubscribe at
> rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'unsubscribe'
>
> >> in the subject field OR by logging into
> www.freelists.org
> >>
> >> - Online, searchable archives are available at
> >> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
> >>
> >>
> >
> > ---
> > Rollei List
> >
> > - Post to ***@freelists.org
> >
> > - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> with 'subscribe' in
> > the subject field OR by logging into
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> >
> > - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> with 'unsubscribe'
> > in the subject field OR by logging into
> www.freelists.org
> >
> > - Online, searchable archives are available at
> > http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Rollei List
> >
> > - Post to ***@freelists.org
> >
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> > the subject field OR by logging into
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> www.freelists.org
> >
> > - Online, searchable archives are available at
> > http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
> >
> >
>
> ---
> Rollei List
>
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>
>
>
> ---
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> into
=== message truncated ===






__________________________________________________
Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí.
Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas,
está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta).
¡Probalo ya!
http://www.yahoo.com.ar/respuestas

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---
Rollei List

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[Douglas Nygren]

I understand that Furtwängler defended the Jews in his orchestra. Leica
did the same. If Rollei fell for all the Übermesnch stuff, shame on
them. There is some justice, then, that an inferior design,
Hasselblad's, dislodged them after the war. Yes, the SLR took its toll,
but when the dust cleared from that Hasselblad was still on its feet.
It had interchangeable lenses, but interchangeable lenses that could
lead to the camera jamming. I have always preferred the Rollei TLR
because it has been so dependable and simple to use. The H is hell in
comparion. That's an opinion and I understand others may differ. They
may be right. I simply prefer the Rollei. But it is sad news to learn
of its management's tainted past.

Best--Doug


On Sep 4, 2006, at 10:00 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:

> Rollei, like many other corporations in the 30's, were supportive of
> the
> Nazi party prior to the war. When the war was over, they resented the
> British occupation at first, but warmed up to them after interacting
> with
> the British for a while. I think that Rollei was embarassed over having
> utilized a Jewish photographer for Hitler's photo shoot as it would
> raise
> eyebrows.
>
> Jeffery Smith
> New Orleans, LA
> http://www.400tx.com
> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Marvin Wallace
> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 8:43 PM
> To: ***@freelists.org
> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker
>
>
> Jeffrey,
> Embarrassing, from whose perspective, the Nazis or Mr. Kahn's? Also
> who was
> supportive of the Nazi party? Please clarify.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Jeffery Smith
> Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 9:25 AM
> To: ***@freelists.org
> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker
>
> No, it wasn't a matter of F&H turning him in. Soon after the incident
> he
> disappeared with other Jews to a concentration camp. I think the
> embarrasing
> part was probably inadvertently involving a Jewish photographer in the
> picture shoot after being supportive of the Nazi party.
>
> I also wonder if the Theodore/Rolleiflex T incident really resulted in
> the
> man being fired or if his sudden departure was unrelated.
>
> Jeffery Smith
> New Orleans, LA
> http://www.400tx.com
> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Carlos Manuel
> Freaza
> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 7:58 PM
> To: ***@freelists.org
> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker
>
>
> Prochnow tells that story maybe a bit different, he
> mentions Ian Parker's book "Rollei TLR-The history".
> F&H was working on the 9x9 third protoype, they did
> only fourteen of these prototypes from hand-made
> parts. The first prototype went to the photographer
> Salomon Kahn who used it to photograph Adolf Hitler.
> Kahn exhibited these photographs taken with the 9x9
> prototype successfully, however the photographs
> started to disappear when it became known that Kahn
> was a jew, he soon died in a concentration camp, but
> it was a Gestapo action, it was not F&H action.
> F&H began to develop larger format cameras on 1930
> before the nazi era with the 7x9 prototype.-
>
> All the best
> Carlos
> --- Jeffery Smith <***@runbox.com> escribió:
>
>> Rollei TLR: The History : The Complete Book on the
>> Origins of Twin-Lens
>> Photography
>> by Ian Parker
>>
>> The black eye: When Rollei was working on the
>> prototypes for a 9x9 studio
>> camera, a rather pro-Nazi Rolleiflex had a
>> professional photographer take
>> Hitler's portrait with one of them for use in
>> creating some postage stamps
>> wit the Fuhrer's likeness. When it was discovered
>> that the photographer was
>> Jewish, everyone panicked, the photographer was
>> later carted off, and the
>> studio camera project was scuttled.
>>
>> Jeffery Smith
>> New Orleans, LA
>> http://www.400tx.com
>> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
>> [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Nygren
>> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 4:56 PM
>> To: ***@freelists.org
>> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History
>> by Ian Parker
>>
>>
>> Thank you for the overview. What is the name of the
>> book and the
>> author's full name?
>>
>> What was the black eye?
>> Doug
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 4, 2006, at 1:25 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
>>
>>> It's a history of how Rollei got started up at the
>> turn of the 20th
>>> century
>>> by Franke & Heidecke, their initial product line
>> (stereo cameras) and
>>> then
>>> the subsequent history of their TLRs (through both
>> wars). It's a fairly
>>> quick read, but gives you some sort of insight
>> into how large the
>>> company
>>> grew, when it reached its pinnacle, and how the
>> SLR ultimately brought
>>> it
>>> down. A nice overview of the company's history
>> with only one
>>> unfortunately
>>> "black eye" that occurred around WWII.
>>>
>>> Jeffery Smith
>>> New Orleans, LA
>>> http://www.400tx.com
>>> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
>>> [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On
>> Behalf Of Douglas Nygren
>>> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 12:16 PM
>>> To: ***@freelists.org
>>> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The
>> History by Ian Parker
>>>
>>>
>>> Jeffrey: I don't know this book. Tell me more
>> about it, please.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Doug
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 4, 2006, at 11:03 AM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
>>>
>>>> I just finished reading Ian Parker's book (for
>> the second time...I
>>>> was a Rollei neophyte the first time I read it).
>> I noticed this
>>>> morning that there
>>>> are two copies of it for sale on e**y. If you
>> live and breathe Rollei,
>>>> it's
>>>> a good read.
>>>>
>>>> Jeffery Smith
>>>> New Orleans, LA
>>>> http://www.400tx.com
>>>> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> Rollei List
>>>>
>>>> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>>>>
>>>> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
>> with 'subscribe' in
>>>> the subject field OR by logging into
>> www.freelists.org
>>>>
>>>> - Unsubscribe at
>> rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'unsubscribe'
>>
>>>> in the subject field OR by logging into
>> www.freelists.org
>>>>
>>>> - Online, searchable archives are available at
>>>> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Rollei List
>>>
>>> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>>>
>>> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
>> with 'subscribe' in
>>> the subject field OR by logging into
>> www.freelists.org
>>>
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>> with 'unsubscribe'
>>> in the subject field OR by logging into
>> www.freelists.org
>>>
>>> - Online, searchable archives are available at
>>> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Rollei List
>>>
>>> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>>>
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>> with 'subscribe' in
>>> the subject field OR by logging into
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>>> in the subject field OR by logging into
>> www.freelists.org
>>>
>>> - Online, searchable archives are available at
>>> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---
>> Rollei List
>>
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>> into www.freelists.org
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>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Rollei List
>>
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>> with
>> 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging
>> into
> === message truncated ===
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí.
> Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas,
> está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta).
> ¡Probalo ya!
> http://www.yahoo.com.ar/respuestas
>
> ---
> Rollei List
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>
>
>
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>
>
> __________ NOD32 1.1737 (20060903) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
> ---
> Rollei List
>
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>
>

[Marc James Small]

At 10:22 PM 9/4/2006, Douglas Nygren wrote:
>I understand that Furtwängler defended the Jews
>in his orchestra. Leica did the same. If Rollei
>fell for all the Übermesnch stuff, shame on
>them. There is some justice, then, that an
>inferior design, Hasselblad's, dislodged them
>after the war. Yes, the SLR took its toll, but
>when the dust cleared from that Hasselblad was
>still on its feet. It had interchangeable
>lenses, but interchangeable lenses that could
>lead to the camera jamming. I have always
>preferred the Rollei TLR because it has been so
>dependable and simple to use. The H is hell in
>comparion. That's an opinion and I understand
>others may differ. They may be right. I simply
>prefer the Rollei. But it is sad news to learn
>of its management's tainted past.

I own 3 big Rolleiflexes, a Rolleicord, and two
Babies. I also own three Hasselblad bodies (a
500CM, a 2000 FC/M, and an SWC). I have NEVER
had any of my Hasselblad cameras jam: that only
happens to limpwits who do not pay attention to a
very few simple rules. I really like using my
2000 FC/M with a bellows and macro lenses --
Leitz Photars and Micro-Summars and Milars and CZ
Luminars and CZJ Mikrotars. There is nothing
quite as impressive as a 6cm by 6cm slide
projected onto a screen and showing the details
from, say, the engraving on a camera lens. Really nifty stuff.

F&H recognized the threat from the Hasselblad but
dithered for a decade or more before introducing
the SL 66. In 1956, F&H pretty much dominated
the professional field, at least in journalism
and wedding photography; Hasselblad was only
starting to make its impact. Had F&H pressed
forward to exploit the goodwill they held with
the professionals and advanced amateurs, we would
only remember Hasselblad today as the name of the
former Kodak agency in Sweden, and the
unsuccessful vendor of a failed camera
system. But Victor, in the end, was a much
better salesman in middle-age than either Franke
or Heidecke were at the ends of their lives.

Marc


***@aya.yale.edu
Cha robh bàs fir gun ghràs fir!

[Marc James Small]

At 10:00 PM 9/4/2006, Jeffery Smith wrote:
>Rollei, like many other corporations in the 30's, were supportive of the
>Nazi party prior to the war. When the war was over, they resented the
>British occupation at first, but warmed up to them after interacting with
>the British for a while. I think that Rollei was embarassed over having
>utilized a Jewish photographer for Hitler's photo shoot as it would raise
>eyebrows.

Jeffery

To the contrary, Franke & Heidecke, as was the
case with almost the entire German optical and
camera industry, were lukewarm towards the Nazi
Party and government from 1933 to the end. F&H
and Voigtländer both attempted to avoid taking
slave laborers and were so nice to the ones they
were forced to take that the local Nazi Party
investigated the companies for lack of commitment
to the New World Order. (Elsi Leitz in Wetzlar
was thrown into a concentration camp for her
outspoken opposition to the Nazis, and the head
of the German optical industry, Heinz
Küppenbender of Zeiss, was tried by the Nazis for
his sheltering of slave laborers -- he was only
acquitted through the direct intervention of
Speer.) The German metallurgy, chemical,
ship-building, and automotive industries all
played closely with the Nazis, but not F&H or the
other camera companies other than KW (owned by an
American who had got it at a fire-sale price when
the former Jewish owners were forced out -- both
Jewish families, though, DID make it to the US
safely, one to Cleveland and the other to LA,
where some of the descendants still ran a camera
store as recently as a decade back). (The one
German auto company to distance itself from the
Nazi regime, oddly enough, was Volkswagen,
actually owned by the Party, though Ferry Porsche
was a frequent visitor to Hitler because of his
tank designs, even though the Mercedes designs
were more commonly accepted for service production.)

And, Parker to the contrary, F&H welcomed the
British occupation. I interviewed the US
representative on the Inter-Allied Council on
Optical Reparations, and he was very sour in
recounting how closely F&H worked with the
British -- "I wish we had had that sort of spirit
at Zeiss", he said. But, then, he REALLY
disliked and distrusted the British, so maybe that flavored his remarks a bit.

Parker tells interesting tales but they are
anecdotal, disjointed, and generally not to be
trusted unless otherwise authenticated from an
independent source. His books are necessary
reads, but hold them at arm's length and keep the salt-shaker at close hand.

Marc


***@aya.yale.edu
Cha robh bàs fir gun ghràs fir!

[Douglas Nygren]

Thanks. Marc. Nice to know this about F&H.
Doug


On Sep 4, 2006, at 10:21 PM, Marc James Small wrote:

> At 10:00 PM 9/4/2006, Jeffery Smith wrote:
>> Rollei, like many other corporations in the 30's, were supportive of
>> the
>> Nazi party prior to the war. When the war was over, they resented the
>> British occupation at first, but warmed up to them after interacting
>> with
>> the British for a while. I think that Rollei was embarassed over
>> having
>> utilized a Jewish photographer for Hitler's photo shoot as it would
>> raise
>> eyebrows.
>
> Jeffery
>
> To the contrary, Franke & Heidecke, as was the case with almost the
> entire German optical and camera industry, were lukewarm towards the
> Nazi Party and government from 1933 to the end. F&H and Voigtländer
> both attempted to avoid taking slave laborers and were so nice to the
> ones they were forced to take that the local Nazi Party investigated
> the companies for lack of commitment to the New World Order. (Elsi
> Leitz in Wetzlar was thrown into a concentration camp for her
> outspoken opposition to the Nazis, and the head of the German optical
> industry, Heinz Küppenbender of Zeiss, was tried by the Nazis for his
> sheltering of slave laborers -- he was only acquitted through the
> direct intervention of Speer.) The German metallurgy, chemical,
> ship-building, and automotive industries all played closely with the
> Nazis, but not F&H or the other camera companies other than KW (owned
> by an American who had got it at a fire-sale price when the former
> Jewish owners were forced out -- both Jewish families, though, DID
> make it to the US safely, one to Cleveland and the other to LA, where
> some of the descendants still ran a camera store as recently as a
> decade back). (The one German auto company to distance itself from
> the Nazi regime, oddly enough, was Volkswagen, actually owned by the
> Party, though Ferry Porsche was a frequent visitor to Hitler because
> of his tank designs, even though the Mercedes designs were more
> commonly accepted for service production.)
>
> And, Parker to the contrary, F&H welcomed the British occupation. I
> interviewed the US representative on the Inter-Allied Council on
> Optical Reparations, and he was very sour in recounting how closely
> F&H worked with the British -- "I wish we had had that sort of spirit
> at Zeiss", he said. But, then, he REALLY disliked and distrusted the
> British, so maybe that flavored his remarks a bit.
>
> Parker tells interesting tales but they are anecdotal, disjointed, and
> generally not to be trusted unless otherwise authenticated from an
> independent source. His books are necessary reads, but hold them at
> arm's length and keep the salt-shaker at close hand.
>
> Marc
>
>
> ***@aya.yale.edu
> Cha robh bàs fir gun ghràs fir!
>
>
> ---
> Rollei List
>
> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>
> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'subscribe'
> in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>
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> 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>
> - Online, searchable archives are available at
> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>
>

[Jeffery Smith]

Parker made it seem more than lukewarm. But I have never blamed civilians
for the follies of their political leaders. :-)

Jeffery Smith
New Orleans, LA
http://www.400tx.com
http://400tx.blogspot.com/



-----Original Message-----
From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
[mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Marc James Small
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 9:21 PM
To: ***@freelists.org; ***@freelists.org
Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker


At 10:00 PM 9/4/2006, Jeffery Smith wrote:
>Rollei, like many other corporations in the 30's, were supportive of
>the Nazi party prior to the war. When the war was over, they resented
>the British occupation at first, but warmed up to them after
>interacting with the British for a while. I think that Rollei was
>embarassed over having utilized a Jewish photographer for Hitler's
>photo shoot as it would raise eyebrows.

Jeffery

To the contrary, Franke & Heidecke, as was the
case with almost the entire German optical and
camera industry, were lukewarm towards the Nazi
Party and government from 1933 to the end. F&H
and Voigtländer both attempted to avoid taking
slave laborers and were so nice to the ones they
were forced to take that the local Nazi Party
investigated the companies for lack of commitment
to the New World Order. (Elsi Leitz in Wetzlar
was thrown into a concentration camp for her
outspoken opposition to the Nazis, and the head
of the German optical industry, Heinz
Küppenbender of Zeiss, was tried by the Nazis for
his sheltering of slave laborers -- he was only
acquitted through the direct intervention of
Speer.) The German metallurgy, chemical,
ship-building, and automotive industries all
played closely with the Nazis, but not F&H or the
other camera companies other than KW (owned by an
American who had got it at a fire-sale price when
the former Jewish owners were forced out -- both
Jewish families, though, DID make it to the US
safely, one to Cleveland and the other to LA,
where some of the descendants still ran a camera
store as recently as a decade back). (The one
German auto company to distance itself from the
Nazi regime, oddly enough, was Volkswagen,
actually owned by the Party, though Ferry Porsche
was a frequent visitor to Hitler because of his
tank designs, even though the Mercedes designs
were more commonly accepted for service production.)

And, Parker to the contrary, F&H welcomed the
British occupation. I interviewed the US
representative on the Inter-Allied Council on
Optical Reparations, and he was very sour in
recounting how closely F&H worked with the
British -- "I wish we had had that sort of spirit
at Zeiss", he said. But, then, he REALLY
disliked and distrusted the British, so maybe that flavored his remarks a
bit.

Parker tells interesting tales but they are
anecdotal, disjointed, and generally not to be
trusted unless otherwise authenticated from an
independent source. His books are necessary
reads, but hold them at arm's length and keep the salt-shaker at close hand.

Marc


***@aya.yale.edu
Cha robh bàs fir gun ghràs fir!


---
Rollei List

- Post to ***@freelists.org

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http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list

[John Jensen]

I have a Rollei book from the 30s at home ('The Golden
Book'???) with numerous factory pictures in it. One
is of the exterior of the factory with a hakenkreuz
flag on a flagpole. Another is an interior shot with
a portrait on the far wall with an image suspiously
like that of Adolph's. Wrong? Well, to do otherwise
at the time would have caused much trouble.

There is a personal commentary somewhere on the
internet with an interesting story about a young man
emigrating to the U.S. in the thirties and finding
work at Ansco in Binghampton (by a referral in
Germany). He found that there were many Jewish
professional people there who had been 'reassigned' by
higher-ups at Agfa to safe haven in the U.S.

By a Google search I found the text:

"On December 30, 1939 I arrived by bus in Binghamton
and settled temporarily in von Meister's beautiful
little summer house in Johnson City. The following
week I was introduced to the management of Agfa-Ansco
where I found to my great surprise that nearly
everybody from the president down to the chief
engineer was a recently arrived Jewish emigree from
Germany. As everybody knows today, IG-Farben was the
terrible outfit which mistreated Jewish deportees in
their large Buna (artificial rubber) Works located in
Auschwitz. Of course their managemennt was tried after
the war and many of them severely punished for their
alleged misdeads. Anyway, during the late Thirties
Agfa-Berlin was pressured by the German government to
get rid of its high-level Jewish staff members and
arrived at the heinous solution of deporting them to
the wild west in Binghamton, NY, where they languished
at salaries from fifteen to fifty thousand dollars per
annum. These salaries were published by the local
press at the end of each year and should be compared
with my starting salary of $1,300 ($25 per week) and
the then-existing minimum wage of $0.45 per hour for a
factory worker. But even with my modest income I was
able to scrape together the $50 downpayment for a four
year old Pontiac in less than eight weeks. In
prosperous Germany I would have to work several years
before I could think about the purchase of an
automobile."

John

>
> To the contrary, Franke & Heidecke, as was the
> case with almost the entire German optical and
> camera industry, were lukewarm towards the Nazi
> Party and government from 1933 to the end. F&H
> and Voigtländer both attempted to avoid taking
> slave laborers and were so nice to the ones they
> were forced to take that the local Nazi Party
> investigated the companies for lack of commitment
> to the New World Order. (Elsi Leitz in Wetzlar
> was thrown into a concentration camp for her
> outspoken opposition to the Nazis, and the head
> of the German optical industry, Heinz
> Küppenbender of Zeiss, was tried by the Nazis for
> his sheltering of slave laborers -- he was only
> acquitted through the direct intervention of
> Speer.) The German metallurgy, chemical,
> ship-building, and automotive industries all
> played closely with the Nazis, but not F&H or the
> other camera companies other than KW (owned by an
> American who had got it at a fire-sale price when
> the former Jewish owners were forced out -- both
> Jewish families, though, DID make it to the US
> safely, one to Cleveland and the other to LA,
> where some of the descendants still ran a camera
> store as recently as a decade back). (The one
> German auto company to distance itself from the
> Nazi regime, oddly enough, was Volkswagen,
> actually owned by the Party, though Ferry Porsche
> was a frequent visitor to Hitler because of his
> tank designs, even though the Mercedes designs
> were more commonly accepted for service production.)
>
> And, Parker to the contrary, F&H welcomed the
> British occupation. I interviewed the US
> representative on the Inter-Allied Council on
> Optical Reparations, and he was very sour in
> recounting how closely F&H worked with the
> British -- "I wish we had had that sort of spirit
> at Zeiss", he said. But, then, he REALLY
> disliked and distrusted the British, so maybe that
> flavored his remarks a bit.
>
> Parker tells interesting tales but they are
> anecdotal, disjointed, and generally not to be
> trusted unless otherwise authenticated from an
> independent source. His books are necessary
> reads, but hold them at arm's length and keep the
> salt-shaker at close hand.
>
> Marc
>
>
> ***@aya.yale.edu
> Cha robh bàs fir gun ghràs fir!
>
>
> ---
> Rollei List
>
> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>
> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> with 'subscribe'
> in the subject field OR by logging into
> www.freelists.org
>
> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> with
> 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging
> into www.freelists.org
>
> - Online, searchable archives are available at
> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>
>

[Allen Zak]

On Sep 5, 2006, at 4:44 PM, John Jensen wrote:

>
> I have a Rollei book from the 30s at home ('The Golden
> Book'???) with numerous factory pictures in it. One
> is of the exterior of the factory with a hakenkreuz
> flag on a flagpole. Another is an interior shot with
> a portrait on the far wall with an image suspiously
> like that of Adolph's. Wrong? Well, to do otherwise
> at the time would have caused much trouble.

During the mid 1950s, in a collection of German photo industry
promotional publications, I came across that same (I think) book. It
contained a number of Rolleiflex photographs, most ordinary salon type
pictures, but included were several flattering photos of Nazi officials
and regalia. These, along with the aforementioned factory view with
Nazi flag at each corner of the building, led me to believe that
either/or Francke and Heidecke were ardent Nazi supporters or were
trying to curry favor with them. Parker's assertions of F & H
complicity with German fascism was entirely consistent with this
because none of the other books and pamphlets made any reference to the
regime, except perhaps for a distant ship in a harbor displaying a
flag, or some other unavoidable Nazi artifact. It made sense to me
that during the 30s, German companies trading on an international
market would try to avoid a touchy political controversy unless they
had some sort of agenda.
There is no evidence, however, that F & H or the German photo industry
as a whole, committed war crimes and some, Leitz and Zeiss among them,
made efforts to protect their Jewish employees.

Allen Zak

[Marc James Small]

At 07:35 PM 9/5/2006, Allen Zak wrote:

>During the mid 1950s, in a collection of German
>photo industry promotional publications, I came
>across that same (I think) book. It contained a
>number of Rolleiflex photographs, most ordinary
>salon type pictures, but included were several
>flattering photos of Nazi officials and
>regalia. These, along with the aforementioned
>factory view with Nazi flag at each corner of
>the building, led me to believe that either/or
>Francke and Heidecke were ardent Nazi supporters
>or were trying to curry favor with
>them. Parker's assertions of F & H complicity
>with German fascism was entirely consistent with
>this because none of the other books and
>pamphlets made any reference to the regime,
>except perhaps for a distant ship in a harbor
>displaying a flag, or some other unavoidable
>Nazi artifact. It made sense to me that during
>the 30s, German companies trading on an
>international market would try to avoid a touchy
>political controversy unless they had some sort of agenda.
>There is no evidence, however, that F & H or the
>German photo industry as a whole, committed war
>crimes and some, Leitz and Zeiss among them,
>made efforts to protect their Jewish employees.

Allen

This was the law at the time. Look to a picture
of the Leitz works at the same period, and you
will see the same. Even the Thyssen works had
these flags, and the Nazis were getting ready to
ship Herr Thyssen off to Dachau for his anti-regime activities.

The law may be an ass, but the law is the
law. Abiding by a simple law requiring companies
to fly national flags or to display the
Chancellor's picture in 1935 or the like -- long
before Kristallnacht and the Holocaust and all
that -- simply marks that the company was complying with a law.

No hu-hu.

Marc


***@aya.yale.edu
Cha robh bàs fir gun ghràs fir!

[Allen Zak]

On Sep 5, 2006, at 9:42 PM, Marc James Small wrote:

> At 07:35 PM 9/5/2006, Allen Zak wrote:
>
>> During the mid 1950s, in a collection of German photo industry
>> promotional publications, I came across that same (I think) book. It
>> contained a number of Rolleiflex photographs, most ordinary salon
>> type pictures, but included were several flattering photos of Nazi
>> officials and regalia. These, along with the aforementioned factory
>> view with Nazi flag at each corner of the building, led me to believe
>> that either/or Francke and Heidecke were ardent Nazi supporters or
>> were trying to curry favor with them. Parker's assertions of F & H
>> complicity with German fascism was entirely consistent with this
>> because none of the other books and pamphlets made any reference to
>> the regime, except perhaps for a distant ship in a harbor displaying
>> a flag, or some other unavoidable Nazi artifact. It made sense to
>> me that during the 30s, German companies trading on an international
>> market would try to avoid a touchy political controversy unless they
>> had some sort of agenda.
>> There is no evidence, however, that F & H or the German photo
>> industry as a whole, committed war crimes and some, Leitz and Zeiss
>> among them, made efforts to protect their Jewish employees.
>
> Allen
>
> This was the law at the time. Look to a picture of the Leitz works at
> the same period, and you will see the same. Even the Thyssen works
> had these flags, and the Nazis were getting ready to ship Herr Thyssen
> off to Dachau for his anti-regime activities.
>
> The law may be an ass, but the law is the law. Abiding by a simple
> law requiring companies to fly national flags or to display the
> Chancellor's picture in 1935 or the like -- long before Kristallnacht
> and the Holocaust and all that -- simply marks that the company was
> complying with a law.
>
> No hu-hu.
>
> Marc

While such laws may have been in effect, they apparently didn't apply
to the publication of promotional materials as none of the other
companies in the collection I examined had Nazi content. Only F & H
saw fit to include that. Thysson, an early supporter of the Nazis who
later turned against them, AFAIK was the only industrialist of his
stature to have been so persecuted by the regime. Aircraft pioneer
Hugo Junkers, who had objected to the military conversion of his highly
successful JU 52, was removed from control of his company but not
otherwise punished. On the whole, the capitalist elite were probably
treated by the Nazis with more lenience if not outright deference than
any other sector of German society.

Allen Zak

[Marc James Small]

At 12:02 AM 9/6/2006, Allen Zak wrote:

>While such laws may have been in effect, they
>apparently didn't apply to the publication of
>promotional materials as none of the other
>companies in the collection I examined had Nazi
>content. Only F & H saw fit to include
>that. Thysson, an early supporter of the Nazis
>who later turned against them, AFAIK was the
>only industrialist of his stature to have been
>so persecuted by the regime. Aircraft pioneer
>Hugo Junkers, who had objected to the military
>conversion of his highly successful JU 52, was
>removed from control of his company but not
>otherwise punished. On the whole, the
>capitalist elite were probably treated by the
>Nazis with more lenience if not outright
>deference than any other sector of German society.

Hmm. Come over to the WWII List and post that
or, better, yet, join H-War. You will learn a
LOT about the pressures exerted on German
companies under the Nazis. I have pictures of
the Leitz Plant flying the Hakenkreuz national
flag, as that was the law, and these are from
Leitz promotional material from the
1930's. Allen, you really haven't a clue as to
how persuasive the system was: from 1935
onwards, ALL promotional literature was censored,
and HAD to include the indicia of the Nazi
regime. You seem like a dog snapping at
flies: you are biting at points you can never
make. F&H did as all other German companies did,
and obeyed the law -- certainly, Leitz, Zeiss
Ikon, and Voigtlander had similar literature put
out, as the law MANDATED this. If you put out a
camera brochure, it was censored to ensure that
this flags and the like were included.

To switch this to a different theater, in the
1950's, after the Arsenal works had been ordered
to copy the Zeiss Ikon Contax camera, they put
out a brochure stating that "this camera is based
on the German Contax camera". Nope, the censors
said. "This camera is based on the best German
camera." Nope. "This camera is superior to the
best cameras made in the non-Communist world."
That was acceptable and was, arguably true in 1948.

B&H, and all of the other German optical firms,
were under severe strictures after 1933 as to
what they were permitted to print. I have a LOT
of Prewar Zeiss and F&H and Leitz literatrure
minus any national flags and the like, but these
are the English-language editions. The
German-language editions are a bit different by more then ein bischen.

Go figuree: businessmen attempt to survive in a
hostile environment and you immediately damn them
as fellow-travellers. You really ought to
re-read your copy of Lenin: he spoke at length on this point.

There is nothing Nazi about F&H to my
knowledge. Parker is a suspect source. If
someone has new information, I'd be glad to add this into the discussion.

Marc



***@aya.yale.edu
Cha robh bàs fir gun ghràs fir!

[Allen Zak]

On Sep 6, 2006, at 12:26 AM, Marc James Small wrote:

> B&H, and all of the other German optical firms, were under severe
> strictures after 1933 as to what they were permitted to print. I have
> a LOT of Prewar Zeiss and F&H and Leitz literatrure minus any national
> flags and the like, but these are the English-language editions. The
> German-language editions are a bit different by more then ein bischen.

The books and brochures to which I referred were all English language
versions.

>
> Go figuree: businessmen attempt to survive in a hostile environment
> and you immediately damn them as fellow-travellers. You really ought
> to re-read your copy of Lenin: he spoke at length on this point.

Which writings by Lenin do you have in mind?

Allen Zak

[Marc James Small]

At 10:21 AM 9/6/2006, Allen Zak wrote:

>On Sep 6, 2006, at 12:26 AM, Marc James Small wrote:
>
>>B&H, and all of the other German optical firms,
>>were under severe strictures after 1933 as to
>>what they were permitted to print. I have a
>>LOT of Prewar Zeiss and F&H and Leitz
>>literatrure minus any national flags and the
>>like, but these are the English-language
>>editions. The German-language editions are a
>>bit different by more then ein bischen.
>
>The books and brochures to which I referred were
>all English language versions.
>
>>
>>Go figuree: businessmen attempt to survive in
>>a hostile environment and you immediately damn
>>them as fellow-travellers. You really ought to
>>re-read your copy of Lenin: he spoke at length on this point.
>
>Which writings by Lenin do you have in mind?
>
>Allen Zak

A;;em

You are REALLY starting to annoy me. ALL Franke
& Heidecke publications were subject to
censorship. Publications put out by their US
agency were subject to censorship. Why do you
not LEARN how dictatorships work before tossing
out futile comments about culpabilities? The
company had NO CHOICE. They published these
pictures or they were out of business and the
families were in concentration camps. What more
do you want? You and I have never experienced
this but I have interviewed hundreds of folks who
were there, and the answer is that you did what was necessary to survive.

As to Lenin, read his writings: he wrote
repetitively about his perception that the Middle
Class was the true enemy of the Proletariat and
that the factory owner was the worst of that
lot. And he warned, in many points, that factory
owners and managers would do their best to seem
to adapt themselves to the New Regime, once the
Revolution had come (In the end, most Russian
Imperial factory managers kept their jobs under
the Soviets, proving yet again the dishonesty in Lenin's rants.)

Marc



***@aya.yale.edu
Cha robh bàs fir gun ghràs fir!

[Allen Zak]

On Sep 6, 2006, at 4:57 PM, Marc James Small wrote:

> At 10:21 AM 9/6/2006, Allen Zak wrote:
>
>> On Sep 6, 2006, at 12:26 AM, Marc James Small wrote:
>>
>>> B&H, and all of the other German optical firms, were under severe
>>> strictures after 1933 as to what they were permitted to print. I
>>> have a LOT of Prewar Zeiss and F&H and Leitz literatrure minus any
>>> national flags and the like, but these are the English-language
>>> editions. The German-language editions are a bit different by more
>>> then ein bischen.
>>
>> The books and brochures to which I referred were all English language
>> versions.
>>
>>>
>>> Go figuree: businessmen attempt to survive in a hostile environment
>>> and you immediately damn them as fellow-travellers. You really
>>> ought to re-read your copy of Lenin: he spoke at length on this
>>> point.
>>
>> Which writings by Lenin do you have in mind?
>>
>> Allen Zak
>
> A;;em
>
> You are REALLY starting to annoy me. ALL Franke & Heidecke
> publications were subject to censorship. Publications put out by
> their US agency were subject to censorship. Why do you not LEARN how
> dictatorships work before tossing out futile comments about
> culpabilities? The company had NO CHOICE. They published these
> pictures or they were out of business and the families were in
> concentration camps. What more do you want? You and I have never
> experienced this but I have interviewed hundreds of folks who were
> there, and the answer is that you did what was necessary to survive.

As clearly stated, all the publications I examined were published
around the same time. Surely, all would have been subject to the same
laws and strictures, yet only the F & H book contained positive or any
at all references to the Nazi regime. I did not present this
observation as definitive, but simply as reinforcing my impression that
the company was in cahoots.

Although my investigations were not comprehensive, I have interviewed
scores of people who were there, possibly over 100, in many walks of
life from middle class housewives to professional military. My
impression was that the extent of repression had much to do with class
and status. The more privileged each, the fewer strictures they
suffered. But on the whole, except for Jews and politicals, life went
on for most people in Germany, at least for those not drafted to fight
on the Eastern front Most hardships related were from consequences
of the war rather than a fascist civil order.

Although having not experienced a fascistic dictatorship, I did spend
some time in mid-1960s Alabama, where, in addition to the never absent
threat of white terrorist violence, racial segregation was maintained
by civil authority up to the state level. The population was expected
to conform, and deviations were severely punished. For simply
attempting to vote, African Americans could expect to lose their jobs,
homes, and sometimes their lives. Police were charged with enforcing
the system by means including deadly force.

During a 1965 voter registration campaign, an Alabama trooper shot to
death voting rights worker Jimmy Lee Jackson, no legal action taken.
In Selma. several white businessmen beat to death civil rights activist
James Reeb and were later acquitted of the freely admitted act. Viola
Liuzzo, another civil rights volunteer, was ambushed and gunned down by
Klansmen and it took federal intervention to convict them. When
Jonathon Daniels, my Selma roommate, was murdered in Loundes County
before several witnesses, his killer was turned loose by the jury. All
this for nothing more than the right to vote.

While far short of life in Nazi Germany, my experiences in the
pre-civil rights South at least gave me an appreciation for what it is
like to live with repression, the fear it generates and the attitudes
it fosters among all parties. Or, at least I think enough so that I am
moved to express an opinion.
.
>
> As to Lenin, read his writings: he wrote repetitively about his
> perception that the Middle Class was the true enemy of the Proletariat
> and that the factory owner was the worst of that lot. And he warned,
> in many points, that factory owners and managers would do their best
> to seem to adapt themselves to the New Regime, once the Revolution had
> come (In the end, most Russian Imperial factory managers kept their
> jobs under the Soviets, proving yet again the dishonesty in Lenin's
> rants.)
>
> Marc

Although it has been decades since my last reading of Lenin, I was not
sure what applies here. Communist and Nazi agendas were entirely
different. While both used repression, the Soviets were bent on
eventually eliminating its capitalist class while the Nazis wanted
theirs harnessed to the state. This made a significant difference in
the way these populations were treated. In the USSR, suppression was
wholesale, brutal, often lethal, while in Nazi Germany, where
industrialists were both menaced and coddled, the latter was applied
far more often than the former. Fritz Thyssen and (very) few others
did prison time , but were relatively well treated and survived the
war. OTOH, owners and stockholders in general were not much molested
and dividends were delivered more or less on time, tending to undercut
any uneasiness with less agreeable Nazi policies.

Apart from those enabling the rise of fascism (Fritz Thyssen again; Oh
the irony!), I don't hold mainstream German businessmen of that time
as criminal for not confronting the regime. But when it came to the
more odious directives, such as those violating human rights, more
should have resisted. What they faced was possibly prison, loss of
property, but very unlikely their lives, a small price to pay for one's
soul.

Businessmen like Oskar Schindler and John Rabe are rare in any society,
but represent a higher standard than those who accommodate. In that
context, Francke and Heidecke were not criminals and they made a great
product. It could have been worse. That it wasn't better; oh, well.

Allen Zak

[Carlos Manuel Freaza]

--- Allen Zak <***@columbus.rr.com> escribió:

> Apart from those enabling the rise of fascism (Fritz
> Thyssen again; Oh
> the irony!), I don't hold mainstream German
> businessmen of that time
> as criminal for not confronting the regime. But
> when it came to the
> more odious directives, such as those violating
> human rights, more
> should have resisted. What they faced was possibly
> prison, loss of
> property, but very unlikely their lives, a small
> price to pay for one's
> soul.
>
> Businessmen like Oskar Schindler and John Rabe are
> rare in any society,
> but represent a higher standard than those who
> accommodate. In that
> context, Francke and Heidecke were not criminals and
> they made a great
> product. It could have been worse. That it wasn't
> better; oh, well.


Von Stauffenberg, Erich von Rommel deaths and hundreds
of German militaries, politicians and civilians killed
after the 20 of July 1944 attempt against Hitler
demonstrate there was a serious German resistance
against the Nazis and this attempt happened after
other several previous attempts like the attempt
against the Hitlers's airplane.
Von Stauffenberg started to conspire against Hitler
from 1942 in Russia when he disliked some SS actions
and then the resistance was not an issue because
Germany was losing the war.
If someone did not put the Staunffenberg's briefcase
behind one of the thick woods that supported the table
where Hitler was talking that day in Östpreussen, the
history could be different.-

It would be a very large message and discussion, a
complete OT to talk about the Nazism origin in Germany
and why this party became so powerful in that country,
but there were obvious extraordinary causes that can
be known reading any objective History book, the
causes justify nothing but they explain the history.

All the best
Carlos






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[Daniel Muchinsky]

>
> On Sep 6, 2006, at 4:57 PM, Marc James Small wrote:
>
>> At 10:21 AM 9/6/2006, Allen Zak wrote:
>>
>>> On Sep 6, 2006, at 12:26 AM, Marc James Small wrote:
>>>
>>>> B&H, and all of the other German optical firms, were under severe
>>>> strictures after 1933 as to what they were permitted to print. I
>>>> have a LOT of Prewar Zeiss and F&H and Leitz literatrure minus any
>>>> national flags and the like, but these are the English-language
>>>> editions. The German-language editions are a bit different by more
>>>> then ein bischen.
>>>
>>> The books and brochures to which I referred were all English language
>>> versions.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Go figuree: businessmen attempt to survive in a hostile environment
>>>> and you immediately damn them as fellow-travellers. You really
>>>> ought to re-read your copy of Lenin: he spoke at length on this
>>>> point.
>>>
>>> Which writings by Lenin do you have in mind?
>>>
>>> Allen Zak
>>
>> A;;em
>>
>> You are REALLY starting to annoy me. ALL Franke & Heidecke
>> publications were subject to censorship. Publications put out by
>> their US agency were subject to censorship. Why do you not LEARN how
>> dictatorships work before tossing out futile comments about
>> culpabilities? The company had NO CHOICE. They published these
>> pictures or they were out of business and the families were in
>> concentration camps. What more do you want? You and I have never
>> experienced this but I have interviewed hundreds of folks who were
>> there, and the answer is that you did what was necessary to survive.
>
> As clearly stated, all the publications I examined were published
> around the same time. Surely, all would have been subject to the same
> laws and strictures, yet only the F & H book contained positive or any
> at all references to the Nazi regime. I did not present this
> observation as definitive, but simply as reinforcing my impression that
> the company was in cahoots.
>
> Although my investigations were not comprehensive, I have interviewed
> scores of people who were there, possibly over 100, in many walks of
> life from middle class housewives to professional military. My
> impression was that the extent of repression had much to do with class
> and status. The more privileged each, the fewer strictures they
> suffered. But on the whole, except for Jews and politicals, life went
> on for most people in Germany, at least for those not drafted to fight
> on the Eastern front Most hardships related were from consequences
> of the war rather than a fascist civil order.
>
> Although having not experienced a fascistic dictatorship, I did spend
> some time in mid-1960s Alabama, where, in addition to the never absent
> threat of white terrorist violence, racial segregation was maintained
> by civil authority up to the state level. The population was expected
> to conform, and deviations were severely punished. For simply
> attempting to vote, African Americans could expect to lose their jobs,
> homes, and sometimes their lives. Police were charged with enforcing
> the system by means including deadly force.
>
> During a 1965 voter registration campaign, an Alabama trooper shot to
> death voting rights worker Jimmy Lee Jackson, no legal action taken.
> In Selma. several white businessmen beat to death civil rights activist
> James Reeb and were later acquitted of the freely admitted act. Viola
> Liuzzo, another civil rights volunteer, was ambushed and gunned down by
> Klansmen and it took federal intervention to convict them. When
> Jonathon Daniels, my Selma roommate, was murdered in Loundes County
> before several witnesses, his killer was turned loose by the jury. All
> this for nothing more than the right to vote.
>
> While far short of life in Nazi Germany, my experiences in the
> pre-civil rights South at least gave me an appreciation for what it is
> like to live with repression, the fear it generates and the attitudes
> it fosters among all parties. Or, at least I think enough so that I am
> moved to express an opinion.
> .
>>
>> As to Lenin, read his writings: he wrote repetitively about his
>> perception that the Middle Class was the true enemy of the Proletariat
>> and that the factory owner was the worst of that lot. And he warned,
>> in many points, that factory owners and managers would do their best
>> to seem to adapt themselves to the New Regime, once the Revolution had
>> come (In the end, most Russian Imperial factory managers kept their
>> jobs under the Soviets, proving yet again the dishonesty in Lenin's
>> rants.)
>>
>> Marc
>
> Although it has been decades since my last reading of Lenin, I was not
> sure what applies here. Communist and Nazi agendas were entirely
> different. While both used repression, the Soviets were bent on
> eventually eliminating its capitalist class while the Nazis wanted
> theirs harnessed to the state. This made a significant difference in
> the way these populations were treated. In the USSR, suppression was
> wholesale, brutal, often lethal, while in Nazi Germany, where
> industrialists were both menaced and coddled, the latter was applied
> far more often than the former. Fritz Thyssen and (very) few others
> did prison time , but were relatively well treated and survived the
> war. OTOH, owners and stockholders in general were not much molested
> and dividends were delivered more or less on time, tending to undercut
> any uneasiness with less agreeable Nazi policies.
>
> Apart from those enabling the rise of fascism (Fritz Thyssen again; Oh
> the irony!), I don't hold mainstream German businessmen of that time
> as criminal for not confronting the regime. But when it came to the
> more odious directives, such as those violating human rights, more
> should have resisted. What they faced was possibly prison, loss of
> property, but very unlikely their lives, a small price to pay for one's
> soul.
>
> Businessmen like Oskar Schindler and John Rabe are rare in any society,
> but represent a higher standard than those who accommodate. In that
> context, Francke and Heidecke were not criminals and they made a great
> product. It could have been worse. That it wasn't better; oh, well.
>
> Allen Zak
>
> ---
> Rollei List
>
> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>
> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'subscribe'
> in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>
> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with
> 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>
> - Online, searchable archives are available at
> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>

Why don't you take your personal controversy somewhere else. None of this
has anything to do with photography. It is just cluttering up the website.

Daniel Muchinsky

[keith_w]

Daniel Muchinsky wrote:
>> On Sep 6, 2006, at 4:57 PM, Marc James Small wrote:
>>
>>> At 10:21 AM 9/6/2006, Allen Zak wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sep 6, 2006, at 12:26 AM, Marc James Small wrote:

[...]

>> Businessmen like Oskar Schindler and John Rabe are rare in any society,
>> but represent a higher standard than those who accommodate. In that
>> context, Francke and Heidecke were not criminals and they made a great
>> product. It could have been worse. That it wasn't better; oh, well.
>>
>> Allen Zak

[...]

> Why don't you take your personal controversy somewhere else. None of this
> has anything to do with photography. It is just cluttering up the website.
>
> Daniel Muchinsky

And so *you* repeat all 4 or 5 pages of message text, without cutting one
single word out of it, yet you call HIM down for cluttering!
Amazing how your point of view adjusts to fit the person sending the message!

keith whaley

[John Jensen]

Now that I am home again I am able to check the
book(s). The book with the photo of the factory with
the Nazi flags flying is 'The Golden Book of the
Rolleiflex' by Walther Heering (1936 - my year, by the
way).

Regarding the picture that I mentioned, does anyone
have a copy of the pamphlet '80 Years Rollei'? Check
page 13 for the photo of the reception room. The
picture hanging there certainly looks like Herr
Hitler(as he NY Times would refer to any dictator,
large or small).

Please remember that any public documents of the time
would have a Nazi symbol on it. I know a nice lady in
England who was born in 1937 and the hakenkreuz is
stamped on her birth certificate. It would have been
hard to avoid at the time.

John

--- Allen Zak <***@columbus.rr.com> wrote:

>
> On Sep 5, 2006, at 4:44 PM, John Jensen wrote:
>
> >
> > I have a Rollei book from the 30s at home ('The
> Golden
> > Book'???) with numerous factory pictures in it.
> One
> > is of the exterior of the factory with a
> hakenkreuz
> > flag on a flagpole. Another is an interior shot
> with
> > a portrait on the far wall with an image
> suspiously
> > like that of Adolph's. Wrong? Well, to do
> otherwise
> > at the time would have caused much trouble.
>
> During the mid 1950s, in a collection of German
> photo industry
> promotional publications, I came across that same (I
> think) book. It
> contained a number of Rolleiflex photographs, most
> ordinary salon type
> pictures, but included were several flattering
> photos of Nazi officials
> and regalia. These, along with the aforementioned
> factory view with
> Nazi flag at each corner of the building, led me to
> believe that
> either/or Francke and Heidecke were ardent Nazi
> supporters or were
> trying to curry favor with them. Parker's
> assertions of F & H
> complicity with German fascism was entirely
> consistent with this
> because none of the other books and pamphlets made
> any reference to the
> regime, except perhaps for a distant ship in a
> harbor displaying a
> flag, or some other unavoidable Nazi artifact. It
> made sense to me
> that during the 30s, German companies trading on an
> international
> market would try to avoid a touchy political
> controversy unless they
> had some sort of agenda.
> There is no evidence, however, that F & H or the
> German photo industry
> as a whole, committed war crimes and some, Leitz and
> Zeiss among them,
> made efforts to protect their Jewish employees.
>
> Allen Zak
>
> ---
> Rollei List
>
> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>
> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> with 'subscribe'
> in the subject field OR by logging into
> www.freelists.org
>
> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> with
> 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging
> into www.freelists.org
>
> - Online, searchable archives are available at
> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>
>

[John Jensen]

Emphasizing on Marc's comments, I have to amend my
comment below to "It would have been impossible to
avoid at the time."

JJ


--- John Jensen <***@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> Now that I am home again I am able to check the
> book(s). The book with the photo of the factory
> with
> the Nazi flags flying is 'The Golden Book of the
> Rolleiflex' by Walther Heering (1936 - my year, by
> the
> way).
>
> Regarding the picture that I mentioned, does anyone
> have a copy of the pamphlet '80 Years Rollei'?
> Check
> page 13 for the photo of the reception room. The
> picture hanging there certainly looks like Herr
> Hitler(as he NY Times would refer to any dictator,
> large or small).
>
> Please remember that any public documents of the
> time
> would have a Nazi symbol on it. I know a nice lady
> in
> England who was born in 1937 and the hakenkreuz is
> stamped on her birth certificate. It would have
> been
> hard to avoid at the time.
>
> John
>
> --- Allen Zak <***@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > On Sep 5, 2006, at 4:44 PM, John Jensen wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > I have a Rollei book from the 30s at home ('The
> > Golden
> > > Book'???) with numerous factory pictures in it.
> > One
> > > is of the exterior of the factory with a
> > hakenkreuz
> > > flag on a flagpole. Another is an interior shot
> > with
> > > a portrait on the far wall with an image
> > suspiously
> > > like that of Adolph's. Wrong? Well, to do
> > otherwise
> > > at the time would have caused much trouble.
> >
> > During the mid 1950s, in a collection of German
> > photo industry
> > promotional publications, I came across that same
> (I
> > think) book. It
> > contained a number of Rolleiflex photographs, most
> > ordinary salon type
> > pictures, but included were several flattering
> > photos of Nazi officials
> > and regalia. These, along with the aforementioned
> > factory view with
> > Nazi flag at each corner of the building, led me
> to
> > believe that
> > either/or Francke and Heidecke were ardent Nazi
> > supporters or were
> > trying to curry favor with them. Parker's
> > assertions of F & H
> > complicity with German fascism was entirely
> > consistent with this
> > because none of the other books and pamphlets made
> > any reference to the
> > regime, except perhaps for a distant ship in a
> > harbor displaying a
> > flag, or some other unavoidable Nazi artifact.
> It
> > made sense to me
> > that during the 30s, German companies trading on
> an
> > international
> > market would try to avoid a touchy political
> > controversy unless they
> > had some sort of agenda.
> > There is no evidence, however, that F & H or the
> > German photo industry
> > as a whole, committed war crimes and some, Leitz
> and
> > Zeiss among them,
> > made efforts to protect their Jewish employees.
> >
> > Allen Zak
> >
> > ---
> > Rollei List
> >
> > - Post to ***@freelists.org
> >
> > - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> > with 'subscribe'
> > in the subject field OR by logging into
> > www.freelists.org
> >
> > - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> > with
> > 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging
> > into www.freelists.org
> >
> > - Online, searchable archives are available at
> > http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
> >
> >
>
> ---
> Rollei List
>
> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>
> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> with 'subscribe'
> in the subject field OR by logging into
> www.freelists.org
>
> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> with
> 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging
> into www.freelists.org
>
> - Online, searchable archives are available at
> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>
>

[Carlos Manuel Freaza]

--- John Jensen <***@sbcglobal.net> escribió:

>>
> Regarding the picture that I mentioned, does anyone
> have a copy of the pamphlet '80 Years Rollei'?
> Check
> page 13 for the photo of the reception room. The
> picture hanging there certainly looks like Herr
> Hitler(as he NY Times would refer to any dictator,
> large or small).

Yes, I have that pamphlet and you are right, pages 13
and 14 are about the factory and workers on 1938, the
picture in the reception room background is about
Hitler, it was the more used and known "official"
portrait that the law required to be exhibited as Marc
explained. I think it was very honest from Rollei to
show this photograph about the company history today.

F&H had prestige very much on the '30s thanks to the
modern F&H factory buildings, the way F&H considered
their workers and the design prizes Rolleiflex and
Rolleicord cameras won around the world and then the
Nazi government couldn't lose the opportunity to use
this prestige to their favour and the government
declared the Rollei factory "Model Plant" as other
similars factories were declared, it created an
additional political pressure on F&H, however despite
they could show an external support to the regime due
to the political circumstances, they never accepted
the swastika for the cameras and tried to resist some
labour conditions during the war as Marc explained
too.

Regarding one of my messages on the topic, I'd like to
clarify that Heidecke´s son died in Russia but not in
Stalingrad, he died there as POW in 1946.-

All the best
Carlos










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[Marc James Small]

At 04:44 PM 9/5/2006, John Jensen wrote:

>I have a Rollei book from the 30s at home ('The Golden
>Book'???) with numerous factory pictures in it. One
>is of the exterior of the factory with a hakenkreuz
>flag on a flagpole. Another is an interior shot with
>a portrait on the far wall with an image suspiously
>like that of Adolph's. Wrong? Well, to do otherwise
>at the time would have caused much trouble.


Industrial concerns were required to fly the
national flag -- which you are describing --
after 1934. All commercial concerns were
required from the same time to post pictures of
the Chancellor on walls in all rooms open to
public view and in all conference and meeting rooms.

F&H was simply abiding by the laws of the nation
in which they were located. There is nothing to
take home from these pictures other than that.

Marc



***@aya.yale.edu
Cha robh bàs fir gun ghràs fir!

[Carlos Manuel Freaza]

>From 1933 F&H rejected several camera designs with
nazis symbols, f.e. the "Nakaflex" with the swastika
at the camera front panel, F&H never used nazis
symbols for their cameras and on 1939 F&H suspended a
giant international photo contest dedicated to
celebrate the important first prize the TLR Automat
won in the Paris World Expo due to the war. BTW they
were within Germany and Herr Heidecke used the brown
uniform like factory technical chief during the war,
Heidecke's son died in Stalingrad, but Rollei did
nothing important for the war, a few secondaries gears
for Panzers only.
Part of the Rollei factory was in ruins when the
Nineth US Army occupied it in 1945, they declared the
factory Off limits for Germans, however they allowed
Herr Friedrich Sommermayer, a F&H engineer, to work in
the factory to rebuild the cameras drawings and
diagrams from separate drawings found in different
departments.
Franke and Heidecke starting negotiations with the
American and afterwards with the British military
government to recover the factory and the Rolleiflex
and Rolleicord cameras manufacture began on December
1945 again with 72 workers.-

All the best
Carlos

--- Jeffery Smith <***@runbox.com> escribió:

> Rollei, like many other corporations in the 30's,
> were supportive of the
> Nazi party prior to the war. When the war was over,
> they resented the
> British occupation at first, but warmed up to them
> after interacting with
> the British for a while. I think that Rollei was
> embarassed over having
> utilized a Jewish photographer for Hitler's photo
> shoot as it would raise
> eyebrows.
>
> Jeffery Smith
> New Orleans, LA
> http://www.400tx.com
> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf
> Of Marvin Wallace
> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 8:43 PM
> To: ***@freelists.org
> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History
> by Ian Parker
>
>
> Jeffrey,
> Embarrassing, from whose perspective, the Nazis or
> Mr. Kahn's? Also who was
> supportive of the Nazi party? Please clarify.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf
> Of Jeffery Smith
> Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 9:25 AM
> To: ***@freelists.org
> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History
> by Ian Parker
>
> No, it wasn't a matter of F&H turning him in. Soon
> after the incident he
> disappeared with other Jews to a concentration camp.
> I think the embarrasing
> part was probably inadvertently involving a Jewish
> photographer in the
> picture shoot after being supportive of the Nazi
> party.
>
> I also wonder if the Theodore/Rolleiflex T incident
> really resulted in the
> man being fired or if his sudden departure was
> unrelated.
>
> Jeffery Smith
> New Orleans, LA
> http://www.400tx.com
> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf
> Of Carlos Manuel Freaza
> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 7:58 PM
> To: ***@freelists.org
> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History
> by Ian Parker
>
>
> Prochnow tells that story maybe a bit different, he
> mentions Ian Parker's book "Rollei TLR-The history".
> F&H was working on the 9x9 third protoype, they did
> only fourteen of these prototypes from hand-made
> parts. The first prototype went to the photographer
> Salomon Kahn who used it to photograph Adolf Hitler.
> Kahn exhibited these photographs taken with the 9x9
> prototype successfully, however the photographs
> started to disappear when it became known that Kahn
> was a jew, he soon died in a concentration camp, but
> it was a Gestapo action, it was not F&H action.
> F&H began to develop larger format cameras on 1930
> before the nazi era with the 7x9 prototype.-
>
> All the best
> Carlos
> --- Jeffery Smith <***@runbox.com> escribió:
>
> > Rollei TLR: The History : The Complete Book on the
> > Origins of Twin-Lens
> > Photography
> > by Ian Parker
> >
> > The black eye: When Rollei was working on the
> > prototypes for a 9x9 studio
> > camera, a rather pro-Nazi Rolleiflex had a
> > professional photographer take
> > Hitler's portrait with one of them for use in
> > creating some postage stamps
> > wit the Fuhrer's likeness. When it was discovered
> > that the photographer was
> > Jewish, everyone panicked, the photographer was
> > later carted off, and the
> > studio camera project was scuttled.
> >
> > Jeffery Smith
> > New Orleans, LA
> > http://www.400tx.com
> > http://400tx.blogspot.com/
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> > [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On
> Behalf Of Douglas Nygren
> > Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 4:56 PM
> > To: ***@freelists.org
> > Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The
> History
> > by Ian Parker
> >
> >
> > Thank you for the overview. What is the name of
> the
> > book and the
> > author's full name?
> >
> > What was the black eye?
> > Doug
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sep 4, 2006, at 1:25 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
> >
> > > It's a history of how Rollei got started up at
> the
> > turn of the 20th
> > > century
> > > by Franke & Heidecke, their initial product line
> > (stereo cameras) and
> > > then
> > > the subsequent history of their TLRs (through
> both
> > wars). It's a fairly
> > > quick read, but gives you some sort of insight
> > into how large the
> > > company
> > > grew, when it reached its pinnacle, and how the
> > SLR ultimately brought
> > > it
> > > down. A nice overview of the company's history
> > with only one
> > > unfortunately
> > > "black eye" that occurred around WWII.
> > >
> > > Jeffery Smith
> > > New Orleans, LA
> > > http://www.400tx.com
> > > http://400tx.blogspot.com/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> > > [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On
> > Behalf Of Douglas Nygren
> > > Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 12:16 PM
> > > To: ***@freelists.org
> > > Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The
> > History by Ian Parker
> > >
> > >
> > > Jeffrey: I don't know this book. Tell me more
> > about it, please.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Doug
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sep 4, 2006, at 11:03 AM, Jeffery Smith
> wrote:
> > >
> > >> I just finished reading Ian Parker's book (for
> > the second time...I
> > >> was a Rollei neophyte the first time I read
> it).
> > I noticed this
> > >> morning that there
> > >> are two copies of it for sale on e**y. If you
> > live and breathe Rollei,
> > >> it's
> > >> a good read.
> > >>
> > >> Jeffery Smith
> > >> New Orleans, LA
>
=== message truncated ===






__________________________________________________
Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí.
Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas,
está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta).
¡Probalo ya!
http://www.yahoo.com.ar/respuestas

[Douglas Nygren]

I know a little about this subject. When did he take the photo? When
did he disappear? We need to work with facts.

Doug


On Sep 4, 2006, at 9:25 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:

> No, it wasn't a matter of F&H turning him in. Soon after the incident
> he
> disappeared with other Jews to a concentration camp. I think the
> embarrasing
> part was probably inadvertently involving a Jewish photographer in the
> picture shoot after being supportive of the Nazi party.
>
> I also wonder if the Theodore/Rolleiflex T incident really resulted in
> the
> man being fired or if his sudden departure was unrelated.
>
> Jeffery Smith
> New Orleans, LA
> http://www.400tx.com
> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Carlos Manuel
> Freaza
> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 7:58 PM
> To: ***@freelists.org
> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker
>
>
> Prochnow tells that story maybe a bit different, he
> mentions Ian Parker's book "Rollei TLR-The history".
> F&H was working on the 9x9 third protoype, they did
> only fourteen of these prototypes from hand-made
> parts. The first prototype went to the photographer
> Salomon Kahn who used it to photograph Adolf Hitler.
> Kahn exhibited these photographs taken with the 9x9
> prototype successfully, however the photographs
> started to disappear when it became known that Kahn
> was a jew, he soon died in a concentration camp, but
> it was a Gestapo action, it was not F&H action.
> F&H began to develop larger format cameras on 1930
> before the nazi era with the 7x9 prototype.-
>
> All the best
> Carlos
> --- Jeffery Smith <***@runbox.com> escribió:
>
>> Rollei TLR: The History : The Complete Book on the
>> Origins of Twin-Lens
>> Photography
>> by Ian Parker
>>
>> The black eye: When Rollei was working on the
>> prototypes for a 9x9 studio
>> camera, a rather pro-Nazi Rolleiflex had a
>> professional photographer take
>> Hitler's portrait with one of them for use in
>> creating some postage stamps
>> wit the Fuhrer's likeness. When it was discovered
>> that the photographer was
>> Jewish, everyone panicked, the photographer was
>> later carted off, and the
>> studio camera project was scuttled.
>>
>> Jeffery Smith
>> New Orleans, LA
>> http://www.400tx.com
>> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
>> [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Nygren
>> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 4:56 PM
>> To: ***@freelists.org
>> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History
>> by Ian Parker
>>
>>
>> Thank you for the overview. What is the name of the
>> book and the
>> author's full name?
>>
>> What was the black eye?
>> Doug
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 4, 2006, at 1:25 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
>>
>>> It's a history of how Rollei got started up at the
>> turn of the 20th
>>> century
>>> by Franke & Heidecke, their initial product line
>> (stereo cameras) and
>>> then
>>> the subsequent history of their TLRs (through both
>> wars). It's a fairly
>>> quick read, but gives you some sort of insight
>> into how large the
>>> company
>>> grew, when it reached its pinnacle, and how the
>> SLR ultimately brought
>>> it
>>> down. A nice overview of the company's history
>> with only one
>>> unfortunately
>>> "black eye" that occurred around WWII.
>>>
>>> Jeffery Smith
>>> New Orleans, LA
>>> http://www.400tx.com
>>> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
>>> [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On
>> Behalf Of Douglas Nygren
>>> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 12:16 PM
>>> To: ***@freelists.org
>>> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The
>> History by Ian Parker
>>>
>>>
>>> Jeffrey: I don't know this book. Tell me more
>> about it, please.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Doug
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 4, 2006, at 11:03 AM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
>>>
>>>> I just finished reading Ian Parker's book (for
>> the second time...I
>>>> was a Rollei neophyte the first time I read it).
>> I noticed this
>>>> morning that there
>>>> are two copies of it for sale on e**y. If you
>> live and breathe Rollei,
>>>> it's
>>>> a good read.
>>>>
>>>> Jeffery Smith
>>>> New Orleans, LA
>>>> http://www.400tx.com
>>>> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> Rollei List
>>>>
>>>> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>>>>
>>>> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
>> with 'subscribe' in
>>>> the subject field OR by logging into
>> www.freelists.org
>>>>
>>>> - Unsubscribe at
>> rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'unsubscribe'
>>
>>>> in the subject field OR by logging into
>> www.freelists.org
>>>>
>>>> - Online, searchable archives are available at
>>>> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Rollei List
>>>
>>> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>>>
>>> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
>> with 'subscribe' in
>>> the subject field OR by logging into
>> www.freelists.org
>>>
>>> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
>> with 'unsubscribe'
>>> in the subject field OR by logging into
>> www.freelists.org
>>>
>>> - Online, searchable archives are available at
>>> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Rollei List
>>>
>>> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>>>
>>> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
>> with 'subscribe' in
>>> the subject field OR by logging into
>> www.freelists.org
>>>
>>> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
>> with 'unsubscribe'
>>> in the subject field OR by logging into
>> www.freelists.org
>>>
>>> - Online, searchable archives are available at
>>> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---
>> Rollei List
>>
>> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>>
>> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
>> with 'subscribe'
>> in the subject field OR by logging into
>> www.freelists.org
>>
>> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
>> with
>> 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging
>> into www.freelists.org
>>
>> - Online, searchable archives are available at
>> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Rollei List
>>
>> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>>
>> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
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>> www.freelists.org
>>
>> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
>> with
>> 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging
>> into
> === message truncated ===
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí.
> Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas,
> está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta).
> ¡Probalo ya!
> http://www.yahoo.com.ar/respuestas
>
> ---
> Rollei List
>
> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>
> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'subscribe'
> in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>
> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with
> 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>
> - Online, searchable archives are available at
> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>
>
>
> ---
> Rollei List
>
> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>
> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'subscribe'
> in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>
> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with
> 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>
> - Online, searchable archives are available at
> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>
>

[Douglas Nygren]

One more question: who you mention "after being supportive of the Nazi
party." Who was? When?

There were lots of Nazis, but not everyone was. There are lots of
Americans who support the war in Iraq, but not everyone does. One has
be to exact here. Leica apparently wasn't a big follower, though I
haven't studied this thoroughly. It would seem Bechstein lost their
factory as a result of the Nazis. They never were the same after the
war.

Doug


On Sep 4, 2006, at 9:25 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:

> No, it wasn't a matter of F&H turning him in. Soon after the incident
> he
> disappeared with other Jews to a concentration camp. I think the
> embarrasing
> part was probably inadvertently involving a Jewish photographer in the
> picture shoot after being supportive of the Nazi party.
>
> I also wonder if the Theodore/Rolleiflex T incident really resulted in
> the
> man being fired or if his sudden departure was unrelated.
>
> Jeffery Smith
> New Orleans, LA
> http://www.400tx.com
> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Carlos Manuel
> Freaza
> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 7:58 PM
> To: ***@freelists.org
> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker
>
>
> Prochnow tells that story maybe a bit different, he
> mentions Ian Parker's book "Rollei TLR-The history".
> F&H was working on the 9x9 third protoype, they did
> only fourteen of these prototypes from hand-made
> parts. The first prototype went to the photographer
> Salomon Kahn who used it to photograph Adolf Hitler.
> Kahn exhibited these photographs taken with the 9x9
> prototype successfully, however the photographs
> started to disappear when it became known that Kahn
> was a jew, he soon died in a concentration camp, but
> it was a Gestapo action, it was not F&H action.
> F&H began to develop larger format cameras on 1930
> before the nazi era with the 7x9 prototype.-
>
> All the best
> Carlos
> --- Jeffery Smith <***@runbox.com> escribió:
>
>> Rollei TLR: The History : The Complete Book on the
>> Origins of Twin-Lens
>> Photography
>> by Ian Parker
>>
>> The black eye: When Rollei was working on the
>> prototypes for a 9x9 studio
>> camera, a rather pro-Nazi Rolleiflex had a
>> professional photographer take
>> Hitler's portrait with one of them for use in
>> creating some postage stamps
>> wit the Fuhrer's likeness. When it was discovered
>> that the photographer was
>> Jewish, everyone panicked, the photographer was
>> later carted off, and the
>> studio camera project was scuttled.
>>
>> Jeffery Smith
>> New Orleans, LA
>> http://www.400tx.com
>> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
>> [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Nygren
>> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 4:56 PM
>> To: ***@freelists.org
>> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History
>> by Ian Parker
>>
>>
>> Thank you for the overview. What is the name of the
>> book and the
>> author's full name?
>>
>> What was the black eye?
>> Doug
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 4, 2006, at 1:25 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
>>
>>> It's a history of how Rollei got started up at the
>> turn of the 20th
>>> century
>>> by Franke & Heidecke, their initial product line
>> (stereo cameras) and
>>> then
>>> the subsequent history of their TLRs (through both
>> wars). It's a fairly
>>> quick read, but gives you some sort of insight
>> into how large the
>>> company
>>> grew, when it reached its pinnacle, and how the
>> SLR ultimately brought
>>> it
>>> down. A nice overview of the company's history
>> with only one
>>> unfortunately
>>> "black eye" that occurred around WWII.
>>>
>>> Jeffery Smith
>>> New Orleans, LA
>>> http://www.400tx.com
>>> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
>>> [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On
>> Behalf Of Douglas Nygren
>>> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 12:16 PM
>>> To: ***@freelists.org
>>> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The
>> History by Ian Parker
>>>
>>>
>>> Jeffrey: I don't know this book. Tell me more
>> about it, please.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Doug
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 4, 2006, at 11:03 AM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
>>>
>>>> I just finished reading Ian Parker's book (for
>> the second time...I
>>>> was a Rollei neophyte the first time I read it).
>> I noticed this
>>>> morning that there
>>>> are two copies of it for sale on e**y. If you
>> live and breathe Rollei,
>>>> it's
>>>> a good read.
>>>>
>>>> Jeffery Smith
>>>> New Orleans, LA
>>>> http://www.400tx.com
>>>> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> Rollei List
>>>>
>>>> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>>>>
>>>> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
>> with 'subscribe' in
>>>> the subject field OR by logging into
>> www.freelists.org
>>>>
>>>> - Unsubscribe at
>> rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'unsubscribe'
>>
>>>> in the subject field OR by logging into
>> www.freelists.org
>>>>
>>>> - Online, searchable archives are available at
>>>> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Rollei List
>>>
>>> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>>>
>>> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
>> with 'subscribe' in
>>> the subject field OR by logging into
>> www.freelists.org
>>>
>>> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
>> with 'unsubscribe'
>>> in the subject field OR by logging into
>> www.freelists.org
>>>
>>> - Online, searchable archives are available at
>>> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Rollei List
>>>
>>> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>>>
>>> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
>> with 'subscribe' in
>>> the subject field OR by logging into
>> www.freelists.org
>>>
>>> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
>> with 'unsubscribe'
>>> in the subject field OR by logging into
>> www.freelists.org
>>>
>>> - Online, searchable archives are available at
>>> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---
>> Rollei List
>>
>> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>>
>> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
>> with 'subscribe'
>> in the subject field OR by logging into
>> www.freelists.org
>>
>> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
>> with
>> 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging
>> into www.freelists.org
>>
>> - Online, searchable archives are available at
>> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Rollei List
>>
>> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>>
>> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
>> with 'subscribe'
>> in the subject field OR by logging into
>> www.freelists.org
>>
>> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
>> with
>> 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging
>> into
> === message truncated ===
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí.
> Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas,
> está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta).
> ¡Probalo ya!
> http://www.yahoo.com.ar/respuestas
>
> ---
> Rollei List
>
> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>
> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'subscribe'
> in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>
> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with
> 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>
> - Online, searchable archives are available at
> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>
>
>
> ---
> Rollei List
>
> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>
> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'subscribe'
> in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>
> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with
> 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>
> - Online, searchable archives are available at
> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>
>

[Jeffery Smith]

Parker's exact wording is "The firm Franke & Heidecke were ardent and proud
supporters of Hitler's National Socialist Party and I would quickly hasten
to add that many other German industrialists also supported Hitler, and with
large sums of money."

One fellow from the LUG asked me how I could possible listen to music
conducted by Herbert Von Karajan as he was not opposed to Hitler. I suppose
that it is the same reason why I drive Japanese cars. I'm not buying them
for Japan's sake. I'm buying them for my sake.

Jeffery Smith
New Orleans, LA
http://www.400tx.com
http://400tx.blogspot.com/



-----Original Message-----
From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
[mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Nygren
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 9:14 PM
To: ***@freelists.org
Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker


One more question: who you mention "after being supportive of the Nazi
party." Who was? When?

There were lots of Nazis, but not everyone was. There are lots of
Americans who support the war in Iraq, but not everyone does. One has
be to exact here. Leica apparently wasn't a big follower, though I
haven't studied this thoroughly. It would seem Bechstein lost their
factory as a result of the Nazis. They never were the same after the
war.

Doug


On Sep 4, 2006, at 9:25 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:

> No, it wasn't a matter of F&H turning him in. Soon after the incident
> he
> disappeared with other Jews to a concentration camp. I think the
> embarrasing
> part was probably inadvertently involving a Jewish photographer in the
> picture shoot after being supportive of the Nazi party.
>
> I also wonder if the Theodore/Rolleiflex T incident really resulted in
> the
> man being fired or if his sudden departure was unrelated.
>
> Jeffery Smith
> New Orleans, LA
> http://www.400tx.com
> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Carlos Manuel
> Freaza
> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 7:58 PM
> To: ***@freelists.org
> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker
>
>
> Prochnow tells that story maybe a bit different, he
> mentions Ian Parker's book "Rollei TLR-The history".
> F&H was working on the 9x9 third protoype, they did
> only fourteen of these prototypes from hand-made
> parts. The first prototype went to the photographer
> Salomon Kahn who used it to photograph Adolf Hitler.
> Kahn exhibited these photographs taken with the 9x9
> prototype successfully, however the photographs
> started to disappear when it became known that Kahn
> was a jew, he soon died in a concentration camp, but
> it was a Gestapo action, it was not F&H action.
> F&H began to develop larger format cameras on 1930
> before the nazi era with the 7x9 prototype.-
>
> All the best
> Carlos
> --- Jeffery Smith <***@runbox.com> escribió:
>
>> Rollei TLR: The History : The Complete Book on the
>> Origins of Twin-Lens
>> Photography
>> by Ian Parker
>>
>> The black eye: When Rollei was working on the
>> prototypes for a 9x9 studio
>> camera, a rather pro-Nazi Rolleiflex had a
>> professional photographer take
>> Hitler's portrait with one of them for use in
>> creating some postage stamps
>> wit the Fuhrer's likeness. When it was discovered
>> that the photographer was
>> Jewish, everyone panicked, the photographer was
>> later carted off, and the
>> studio camera project was scuttled.
>>
>> Jeffery Smith
>> New Orleans, LA
>> http://www.400tx.com
>> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
>> [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Nygren
>> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 4:56 PM
>> To: ***@freelists.org
>> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History
>> by Ian Parker
>>
>>
>> Thank you for the overview. What is the name of the
>> book and the
>> author's full name?
>>
>> What was the black eye?
>> Doug
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 4, 2006, at 1:25 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
>>
>>> It's a history of how Rollei got started up at the
>> turn of the 20th
>>> century
>>> by Franke & Heidecke, their initial product line
>> (stereo cameras) and
>>> then
>>> the subsequent history of their TLRs (through both
>> wars). It's a fairly
>>> quick read, but gives you some sort of insight
>> into how large the
>>> company
>>> grew, when it reached its pinnacle, and how the
>> SLR ultimately brought
>>> it
>>> down. A nice overview of the company's history
>> with only one
>>> unfortunately
>>> "black eye" that occurred around WWII.
>>>
>>> Jeffery Smith
>>> New Orleans, LA
>>> http://www.400tx.com
>>> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
>>> [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On
>> Behalf Of Douglas Nygren
>>> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 12:16 PM
>>> To: ***@freelists.org
>>> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The
>> History by Ian Parker
>>>
>>>
>>> Jeffrey: I don't know this book. Tell me more
>> about it, please.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Doug
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 4, 2006, at 11:03 AM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
>>>
>>>> I just finished reading Ian Parker's book (for
>> the second time...I
>>>> was a Rollei neophyte the first time I read it).
>> I noticed this
>>>> morning that there
>>>> are two copies of it for sale on e**y. If you
>> live and breathe Rollei,
>>>> it's
>>>> a good read.
>>>>
>>>> Jeffery Smith
>>>> New Orleans, LA
>>>> http://www.400tx.com
>>>> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> Rollei List
>>>>
>>>> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>>>>
>>>> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
>> with 'subscribe' in
>>>> the subject field OR by logging into
>> www.freelists.org
>>>>
>>>> - Unsubscribe at
>> rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'unsubscribe'
>>
>>>> in the subject field OR by logging into
>> www.freelists.org
>>>>
>>>> - Online, searchable archives are available at
>>>> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Rollei List
>>>
>>> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>>>
>>> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
>> with 'subscribe' in
>>> the subject field OR by logging into
>> www.freelists.org
>>>
>>> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
>> with 'unsubscribe'
>>> in the subject field OR by logging into
>> www.freelists.org
>>>
>>> - Online, searchable archives are available at
>>> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Rollei List
>>>
>>> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>>>
>>> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
>> with 'subscribe' in
>>> the subject field OR by logging into
>> www.freelists.org
>>>
>>> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
>> with 'unsubscribe'
>>> in the subject field OR by logging into
>> www.freelists.org
>>>
>>> - Online, searchable archives are available at
>>> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---
>> Rollei List
>>
>> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>>
>> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
>> with 'subscribe'
>> in the subject field OR by logging into
>> www.freelists.org
>>
>> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
>> with
>> 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging
>> into www.freelists.org
>>
>> - Online, searchable archives are available at
>> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Rollei List
>>
>> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>>
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>> with
>> 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging
>> into
> === message truncated ===
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí.
> Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas,
> está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta).
> ¡Probalo ya!
> http://www.yahoo.com.ar/respuestas
>
> ---
> Rollei List
>
> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>
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> the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
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>
>
>
> ---
> Rollei List
>
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[John Jensen]

Sake or sake?? (sorry for the bad pun)

John

--- Jeffery Smith <***@runbox.com> wrote:

> Parker's exact wording is "The firm Franke &
> Heidecke were ardent and proud
> supporters of Hitler's National Socialist Party and
> I would quickly hasten
> to add that many other German industrialists also
> supported Hitler, and with
> large sums of money."
>
> One fellow from the LUG asked me how I could
> possible listen to music
> conducted by Herbert Von Karajan as he was not
> opposed to Hitler. I suppose
> that it is the same reason why I drive Japanese
> cars. I'm not buying them
> for Japan's sake. I'm buying them for my sake.
>
> Jeffery Smith
> New Orleans, LA
> http://www.400tx.com
> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf
> Of Douglas Nygren
> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 9:14 PM
> To: ***@freelists.org
> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History
> by Ian Parker
>
>
> One more question: who you mention "after being
> supportive of the Nazi
> party." Who was? When?
>
> There were lots of Nazis, but not everyone was.
> There are lots of
> Americans who support the war in Iraq, but not
> everyone does. One has
> be to exact here. Leica apparently wasn't a big
> follower, though I
> haven't studied this thoroughly. It would seem
> Bechstein lost their
> factory as a result of the Nazis. They never were
> the same after the
> war.
>
> Doug
>
>
> On Sep 4, 2006, at 9:25 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
>
> > No, it wasn't a matter of F&H turning him in. Soon
> after the incident
> > he
> > disappeared with other Jews to a concentration
> camp. I think the
> > embarrasing
> > part was probably inadvertently involving a Jewish
> photographer in the
> > picture shoot after being supportive of the Nazi
> party.
> >
> > I also wonder if the Theodore/Rolleiflex T
> incident really resulted in
> > the
> > man being fired or if his sudden departure was
> unrelated.
> >
> > Jeffery Smith
> > New Orleans, LA
> > http://www.400tx.com
> > http://400tx.blogspot.com/
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> > [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On
> Behalf Of Carlos Manuel
> > Freaza
> > Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 7:58 PM
> > To: ***@freelists.org
> > Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The
> History by Ian Parker
> >
> >
> > Prochnow tells that story maybe a bit different,
> he
> > mentions Ian Parker's book "Rollei TLR-The
> history".
> > F&H was working on the 9x9 third protoype, they
> did
> > only fourteen of these prototypes from hand-made
> > parts. The first prototype went to the
> photographer
> > Salomon Kahn who used it to photograph Adolf
> Hitler.
> > Kahn exhibited these photographs taken with the
> 9x9
> > prototype successfully, however the photographs
> > started to disappear when it became known that
> Kahn
> > was a jew, he soon died in a concentration camp,
> but
> > it was a Gestapo action, it was not F&H action.
> > F&H began to develop larger format cameras on 1930
> > before the nazi era with the 7x9 prototype.-
> >
> > All the best
> > Carlos
> > --- Jeffery Smith <***@runbox.com> escribió:
> >
> >> Rollei TLR: The History : The Complete Book on
> the
> >> Origins of Twin-Lens
> >> Photography
> >> by Ian Parker
> >>
> >> The black eye: When Rollei was working on the
> >> prototypes for a 9x9 studio
> >> camera, a rather pro-Nazi Rolleiflex had a
> >> professional photographer take
> >> Hitler's portrait with one of them for use in
> >> creating some postage stamps
> >> wit the Fuhrer's likeness. When it was discovered
> >> that the photographer was
> >> Jewish, everyone panicked, the photographer was
> >> later carted off, and the
> >> studio camera project was scuttled.
> >>
> >> Jeffery Smith
> >> New Orleans, LA
> >> http://www.400tx.com
> >> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> >> [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On
> Behalf Of Douglas Nygren
> >> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 4:56 PM
> >> To: ***@freelists.org
> >> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The
> History
> >> by Ian Parker
> >>
> >>
> >> Thank you for the overview. What is the name of
> the
> >> book and the
> >> author's full name?
> >>
> >> What was the black eye?
> >> Doug
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sep 4, 2006, at 1:25 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
> >>
> >>> It's a history of how Rollei got started up at
> the
> >> turn of the 20th
> >>> century
> >>> by Franke & Heidecke, their initial product line
> >> (stereo cameras) and
> >>> then
> >>> the subsequent history of their TLRs (through
> both
> >> wars). It's a fairly
> >>> quick read, but gives you some sort of insight
> >> into how large the
> >>> company
> >>> grew, when it reached its pinnacle, and how the
> >> SLR ultimately brought
> >>> it
> >>> down. A nice overview of the company's history
> >> with only one
> >>> unfortunately
> >>> "black eye" that occurred around WWII.
> >>>
> >>> Jeffery Smith
> >>> New Orleans, LA
> >>> http://www.400tx.com
> >>> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> >>> [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On
> >> Behalf Of Douglas Nygren
> >>> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 12:16 PM
> >>> To: ***@freelists.org
> >>> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The
> >> History by Ian Parker
> >>>
> >>>
>
=== message truncated ===

[Jeffery Smith]

Cute. :-)

Jeffery Smith
New Orleans, LA
http://www.400tx.com
http://400tx.blogspot.com/



-----Original Message-----
From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
[mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf Of John Jensen
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 3:46 PM
To: ***@freelists.org
Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker


Sake or sake?? (sorry for the bad pun)

John

--- Jeffery Smith <***@runbox.com> wrote:

> Parker's exact wording is "The firm Franke &
> Heidecke were ardent and proud
> supporters of Hitler's National Socialist Party and
> I would quickly hasten
> to add that many other German industrialists also
> supported Hitler, and with
> large sums of money."
>
> One fellow from the LUG asked me how I could
> possible listen to music
> conducted by Herbert Von Karajan as he was not
> opposed to Hitler. I suppose
> that it is the same reason why I drive Japanese
> cars. I'm not buying them
> for Japan's sake. I'm buying them for my sake.
>
> Jeffery Smith
> New Orleans, LA
> http://www.400tx.com
> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Nygren
> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 9:14 PM
> To: ***@freelists.org
> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History
> by Ian Parker
>
>
> One more question: who you mention "after being
> supportive of the Nazi
> party." Who was? When?
>
> There were lots of Nazis, but not everyone was.
> There are lots of
> Americans who support the war in Iraq, but not
> everyone does. One has
> be to exact here. Leica apparently wasn't a big
> follower, though I
> haven't studied this thoroughly. It would seem
> Bechstein lost their
> factory as a result of the Nazis. They never were
> the same after the
> war.
>
> Doug
>
>
> On Sep 4, 2006, at 9:25 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
>
> > No, it wasn't a matter of F&H turning him in. Soon
> after the incident
> > he
> > disappeared with other Jews to a concentration
> camp. I think the
> > embarrasing
> > part was probably inadvertently involving a Jewish
> photographer in the
> > picture shoot after being supportive of the Nazi
> party.
> >
> > I also wonder if the Theodore/Rolleiflex T
> incident really resulted in
> > the
> > man being fired or if his sudden departure was
> unrelated.
> >
> > Jeffery Smith
> > New Orleans, LA
> > http://www.400tx.com
> > http://400tx.blogspot.com/
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> > [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On
> Behalf Of Carlos Manuel
> > Freaza
> > Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 7:58 PM
> > To: ***@freelists.org
> > Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The
> History by Ian Parker
> >
> >
> > Prochnow tells that story maybe a bit different,
> he
> > mentions Ian Parker's book "Rollei TLR-The
> history".
> > F&H was working on the 9x9 third protoype, they
> did
> > only fourteen of these prototypes from hand-made
> > parts. The first prototype went to the
> photographer
> > Salomon Kahn who used it to photograph Adolf
> Hitler.
> > Kahn exhibited these photographs taken with the
> 9x9
> > prototype successfully, however the photographs
> > started to disappear when it became known that
> Kahn
> > was a jew, he soon died in a concentration camp,
> but
> > it was a Gestapo action, it was not F&H action.
> > F&H began to develop larger format cameras on 1930
> > before the nazi era with the 7x9 prototype.-
> >
> > All the best
> > Carlos
> > --- Jeffery Smith <***@runbox.com> escribió:
> >
> >> Rollei TLR: The History : The Complete Book on
> the
> >> Origins of Twin-Lens
> >> Photography
> >> by Ian Parker
> >>
> >> The black eye: When Rollei was working on the
> >> prototypes for a 9x9 studio
> >> camera, a rather pro-Nazi Rolleiflex had a
> >> professional photographer take
> >> Hitler's portrait with one of them for use in
> >> creating some postage stamps
> >> wit the Fuhrer's likeness. When it was discovered
> >> that the photographer was
> >> Jewish, everyone panicked, the photographer was
> >> later carted off, and the
> >> studio camera project was scuttled.
> >>
> >> Jeffery Smith
> >> New Orleans, LA
> >> http://www.400tx.com
> >> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> >> [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On
> Behalf Of Douglas Nygren
> >> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 4:56 PM
> >> To: ***@freelists.org
> >> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The
> History
> >> by Ian Parker
> >>
> >>
> >> Thank you for the overview. What is the name of
> the
> >> book and the
> >> author's full name?
> >>
> >> What was the black eye?
> >> Doug
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sep 4, 2006, at 1:25 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
> >>
> >>> It's a history of how Rollei got started up at
> the
> >> turn of the 20th
> >>> century
> >>> by Franke & Heidecke, their initial product line
> >> (stereo cameras) and
> >>> then
> >>> the subsequent history of their TLRs (through
> both
> >> wars). It's a fairly
> >>> quick read, but gives you some sort of insight
> >> into how large the
> >>> company
> >>> grew, when it reached its pinnacle, and how the
> >> SLR ultimately brought
> >>> it
> >>> down. A nice overview of the company's history
> >> with only one
> >>> unfortunately
> >>> "black eye" that occurred around WWII.
> >>>
> >>> Jeffery Smith
> >>> New Orleans, LA
> >>> http://www.400tx.com
> >>> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> >>> [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On
> >> Behalf Of Douglas Nygren
> >>> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 12:16 PM
> >>> To: ***@freelists.org
> >>> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The
> >> History by Ian Parker
> >>>
> >>>
>
=== message truncated ===

---
Rollei List

- Post to ***@freelists.org

- Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'subscribe'
in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org

- Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with
'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org

- Online, searchable archives are available at
http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list

[Carlos Manuel Freaza]

Paul Franke and Reinhold Heidecke never were
investigated after the war for supposed "nazi"
activities,on the other hand they were respected by
American and British and they obtained a quick
agreement to beginn the factory production.
In Prochnow Rollei Report I, there is a photograph
-page 1-29- where the complete Franke family and
complete Heidecke family appear with Mr Harris and Mr
L.Wyborn from the British government in the Rollei
factory, British and Franke&Heidecke families look
like old firends in the photograph. The photograph was
taken on August 1945.

Krupp was a different case, he was convicted in
Nürnberg.

Jefferey, be careful with Parker, he says some wrong
things like Heidecke invented the TLR or that Heidecke
had the idea about the TLR during the WWI.
The TLR existed at least from 1870 in England and
Heidecke had the idea about the compact TLR because
the stereo camera users liked to take normal
photographs first capping one lens, then the other and
advacing th film after to do both separate exposures.
This use caused the reflex compact TLR design in 1928
on the basis of an also compact stereo camera, not the
causes Parker imagined.-

All the best
Carlos

--- Jeffery Smith <***@runbox.com> escribió:

> Parker's exact wording is "The firm Franke &
> Heidecke were ardent and proud
> supporters of Hitler's National Socialist Party and
> I would quickly hasten
> to add that many other German industrialists also
> supported Hitler, and with
> large sums of money."
>
> One fellow from the LUG asked me how I could
> possible listen to music
> conducted by Herbert Von Karajan as he was not
> opposed to Hitler. I suppose
> that it is the same reason why I drive Japanese
> cars. I'm not buying them
> for Japan's sake. I'm buying them for my sake.
>
> Jeffery Smith
> New Orleans, LA
> http://www.400tx.com
> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf
> Of Douglas Nygren
> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 9:14 PM
> To: ***@freelists.org
> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History
> by Ian Parker
>
>
> One more question: who you mention "after being
> supportive of the Nazi
> party." Who was? When?
>
> There were lots of Nazis, but not everyone was.
> There are lots of
> Americans who support the war in Iraq, but not
> everyone does. One has
> be to exact here. Leica apparently wasn't a big
> follower, though I
> haven't studied this thoroughly. It would seem
> Bechstein lost their
> factory as a result of the Nazis. They never were
> the same after the
> war.
>
> Doug
>
>
> On Sep 4, 2006, at 9:25 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
>
> > No, it wasn't a matter of F&H turning him in. Soon
> after the incident
> > he
> > disappeared with other Jews to a concentration
> camp. I think the
> > embarrasing
> > part was probably inadvertently involving a Jewish
> photographer in the
> > picture shoot after being supportive of the Nazi
> party.
> >
> > I also wonder if the Theodore/Rolleiflex T
> incident really resulted in
> > the
> > man being fired or if his sudden departure was
> unrelated.
> >
> > Jeffery Smith
> > New Orleans, LA
> > http://www.400tx.com
> > http://400tx.blogspot.com/
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> > [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On
> Behalf Of Carlos Manuel
> > Freaza
> > Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 7:58 PM
> > To: ***@freelists.org
> > Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The
> History by Ian Parker
> >
> >
> > Prochnow tells that story maybe a bit different,
> he
> > mentions Ian Parker's book "Rollei TLR-The
> history".
> > F&H was working on the 9x9 third protoype, they
> did
> > only fourteen of these prototypes from hand-made
> > parts. The first prototype went to the
> photographer
> > Salomon Kahn who used it to photograph Adolf
> Hitler.
> > Kahn exhibited these photographs taken with the
> 9x9
> > prototype successfully, however the photographs
> > started to disappear when it became known that
> Kahn
> > was a jew, he soon died in a concentration camp,
> but
> > it was a Gestapo action, it was not F&H action.
> > F&H began to develop larger format cameras on 1930
> > before the nazi era with the 7x9 prototype.-
> >
> > All the best
> > Carlos
> > --- Jeffery Smith <***@runbox.com> escribió:
> >
> >> Rollei TLR: The History : The Complete Book on
> the
> >> Origins of Twin-Lens
> >> Photography
> >> by Ian Parker
> >>
> >> The black eye: When Rollei was working on the
> >> prototypes for a 9x9 studio
> >> camera, a rather pro-Nazi Rolleiflex had a
> >> professional photographer take
> >> Hitler's portrait with one of them for use in
> >> creating some postage stamps
> >> wit the Fuhrer's likeness. When it was discovered
> >> that the photographer was
> >> Jewish, everyone panicked, the photographer was
> >> later carted off, and the
> >> studio camera project was scuttled.
> >>
> >> Jeffery Smith
> >> New Orleans, LA
> >> http://www.400tx.com
> >> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> >> [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On
> Behalf Of Douglas Nygren
> >> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 4:56 PM
> >> To: ***@freelists.org
> >> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The
> History
> >> by Ian Parker
> >>
> >>
> >> Thank you for the overview. What is the name of
> the
> >> book and the
> >> author's full name?
> >>
> >> What was the black eye?
> >> Doug
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sep 4, 2006, at 1:25 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
> >>
> >>> It's a history of how Rollei got started up at
> the
> >> turn of the 20th
> >>> century
> >>> by Franke & Heidecke, their initial product line
> >> (stereo cameras) and
> >>> then
> >>> the subsequent history of their TLRs (through
> both
> >> wars). It's a fairly
> >>> quick read, but gives you some sort of insight
> >> into how large the
> >>> company
> >>> grew, when it reached its pinnacle, and how the
> >> SLR ultimately brought
> >>> it
> >>> down. A nice overview of the company's history
> >> with only one
> >>> unfortunately
> >>> "black eye" that occurred around WWII.
> >>>
> >>> Jeffery Smith
> >>> New Orleans, LA
> >>> http://www.400tx.com
> >>> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> >>> [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On
> >> Behalf Of Douglas Nygren
> >>> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 12:16 PM
> >>> To: ***@freelists.org
> >>> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The
> >> History by Ian Parker
> >>>
> >>>
>
=== message truncated ===






__________________________________________________
Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí.
Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas,
está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta).
¡Probalo ya!
http://www.yahoo.com.ar/respuestas

[Marc James Small]

At 05:29 PM 9/5/2006, Carlos Manuel Freaza wrote:
>Paul Franke and Reinhold Heidecke never were
>investigated after the war for supposed "nazi"
>activities,on the other hand they were respected by
>American and British and they obtained a quick
>agreement to beginn the factory production.
>In Prochnow Rollei Report I, there is a photograph
>-page 1-29- where the complete Franke family and
>complete Heidecke family appear with Mr Harris and Mr
>L.Wyborn from the British government in the Rollei
>factory, British and Franke&Heidecke families look
>like old firends in the photograph. The photograph was
>taken on August 1945.
>
>Krupp was a different case, he was convicted in
>Nürnberg.

Per my interviews and research, the US government
was MOST unhappy that F&H fell into the British
Zone of Occupation and attempted to get the
British to put them out of business. The British
properly saw this as a US effort to encourage
sales for the Zeiss Ikon Ikoflex TLR's, as the
old CP Goerz factory in Berlin was relatively
undamaged and was able to re-enter production
promptly -- and Zeiss Ikon was in the US Zone.

Krupp was dismissed at Nuremburg on the grounds
that he was senile, as he was. The Company was
later found, however, to have engaged in war
crimes, causing the major shift in its status in
1966. See, William Manchester, THE ARMS OF KRUPP, for details.

Marc


***@aya.yale.edu
Cha robh bàs fir gun ghràs fir!

[Carlos Manuel Freaza]

--- Marc James Small <***@infionline.net>
escribió:

>
> Krupp was dismissed at Nuremburg on the grounds
> that he was senile, as he was. The Company was
> later found, however, to have engaged in war
> crimes, causing the major shift in its status in
> 1966. See, William Manchester, THE ARMS OF KRUPP,
> for details.
>
> Marc

Thanks Marc, I wrote from memory, I knew Krupp had
something to do with war crimes.

All the best
Carlos





__________________________________________________
Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí.
Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas,
está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta).
¡Probalo ya!
http://www.yahoo.com.ar/respuestas

[Allen Zak]

On Sep 5, 2006, at 4:39 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:

> Parker's exact wording is "The firm Franke & Heidecke were ardent and
> proud
> supporters of Hitler's National Socialist Party and I would quickly
> hasten
> to add that many other German industrialists also supported Hitler,
> and with
> large sums of money."
>
> One fellow from the LUG asked me how I could possible listen to music
> conducted by Herbert Von Karajan as he was not opposed to Hitler. I
> suppose
> that it is the same reason why I drive Japanese cars. I'm not buying
> them
> for Japan's sake. I'm buying them for my sake.
>
> Jeffery Smith
> New Orleans, LA
> http://www.400tx.com
> http://400tx.blogspot.com/

Von Karajan, who joined in 1935, was a member of the Nazi Party.
Afterward, he was unrepentant. I never bought any of his recordings
because I don't support Nazis, no matter what they are selling.

Allen Zak

[Jeffery Smith]

I think that Von Karajan probably had the biggest ego of just about anyone
in the 20th century. I wouldn't expect him to have repented. He felt himself
incapable of error.

Jeffery Smith
New Orleans, LA
http://www.400tx.com
http://400tx.blogspot.com/



-----Original Message-----
From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
[mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Allen Zak
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 6:47 PM
To: ***@freelists.org
Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker



On Sep 5, 2006, at 4:39 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:

> Parker's exact wording is "The firm Franke & Heidecke were ardent and
> proud
> supporters of Hitler's National Socialist Party and I would quickly
> hasten
> to add that many other German industrialists also supported Hitler,
> and with
> large sums of money."
>
> One fellow from the LUG asked me how I could possible listen to music
> conducted by Herbert Von Karajan as he was not opposed to Hitler. I
> suppose that it is the same reason why I drive Japanese cars. I'm not
> buying them
> for Japan's sake. I'm buying them for my sake.
>
> Jeffery Smith
> New Orleans, LA
> http://www.400tx.com
> http://400tx.blogspot.com/

Von Karajan, who joined in 1935, was a member of the Nazi Party.
Afterward, he was unrepentant. I never bought any of his recordings
because I don't support Nazis, no matter what they are selling.

Allen Zak

---
Rollei List

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[Marc James Small]

At 04:39 PM 9/5/2006, Jeffery Smith wrote:
>Parker's exact wording is "The firm Franke & Heidecke were ardent and proud
>supporters of Hitler's National Socialist Party and I would quickly hasten
>to add that many other German industrialists also supported Hitler, and with
>large sums of money."
>
>One fellow from the LUG asked me how I could possible listen to music
>conducted by Herbert Von Karajan as he was not opposed to Hitler. I suppose
>that it is the same reason why I drive Japanese cars. I'm not buying them
>for Japan's sake. I'm buying them for my sake.

Herbert von Karajan was an ardent and open
supporter of the Nazi regime to the point where
Speer and his cronies didn't trust him when using
the two Berlin symphonies to signal the need to
evacuate Berlin -- they had to get Bruno Walter
to do this, but von Karajan was left in the dark
for fear that he would denounce the mass
evacuation to the authorities. (They already had
squads of folks going around stringing those they
felt were ready to flee from the nearest
lamp-post.) Walter was a superb conductor and
interpreter, but von Karajan was angelic, despite
his demonic attraction to the Third Reich.

Parker's exuberant but false statement set out
above is just another example of why you need to
keep that salt-shaker at hand when using him as a
source. Anecdotal he is, but reliable he is not
-- I once started listing known errors in his
HISTORY, and this was long before Prochnow came
on the scene. I gave up when I reached 70
obvious errors or so and wasn't even half-way
through the book. Parker is a necessary read
but it is most dangerous to regard what he sets
out as vital unless it is verified from other sources.

Marc



***@aya.yale.edu
Cha robh bàs fir gun ghràs fir!

[Slobodan Dimitrov]

Artists and authoritarianism, now there's a subject rarely broached
these days.

Slobodan Dimitrov
Studio G-8,
Angels Gate Cultural Center
http://sdimitrovphoto.com





On Sep 5, 2006, at 6:32 PM, Marc James Small wrote:

> At 04:39 PM 9/5/2006, Jeffery Smith wrote:
>> Parker's exact wording is "The firm Franke & Heidecke were ardent
>> and proud
>> supporters of Hitler's National Socialist Party and I would
>> quickly hasten
>> to add that many other German industrialists also supported
>> Hitler, and with
>> large sums of money."
>>
>> One fellow from the LUG asked me how I could possible listen to music
>> conducted by Herbert Von Karajan as he was not opposed to Hitler.
>> I suppose
>> that it is the same reason why I drive Japanese cars. I'm not
>> buying them
>> for Japan's sake. I'm buying them for my sake.
>
> Herbert von Karajan was an ardent and open supporter of the Nazi
> regime to the point where Speer and his cronies didn't trust him
> when using the two Berlin symphonies to signal the need to evacuate
> Berlin -- they had to get Bruno Walter to do this, but von Karajan
> was left in the dark for fear that he would denounce the mass
> evacuation to the authorities. (They already had squads of folks
> going around stringing those they felt were ready to flee from the
> nearest lamp-post.) Walter was a superb conductor and
> interpreter, but von Karajan was angelic, despite his demonic
> attraction to the Third Reich.
>
> Parker's exuberant but false statement set out above is just
> another example of why you need to keep that salt-shaker at hand
> when using him as a source. Anecdotal he is, but reliable he is
> not -- I once started listing known errors in his HISTORY, and this
> was long before Prochnow came on the scene. I gave up when I
> reached 70 obvious errors or so and wasn't even half-way through
> the book. Parker is a necessary read but it is most dangerous to
> regard what he sets out as vital unless it is verified from other
> sources.
>
> Marc
>
>
>
> ***@aya.yale.edu
> Cha robh bàs fir gun ghràs fir!
>
>
> ---
> Rollei List
>
> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>
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> in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
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> www.freelists.org
>
> - Online, searchable archives are available at
> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list

[Jeffery Smith]

At this point, I don't have much to compare Parker to. But I did notice some
typos that should have been weeded out by any competent editor.

Jeffery Smith
New Orleans, LA
http://www.400tx.com
http://400tx.blogspot.com/



-----Original Message-----
From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
[mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Marc James Small
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 8:32 PM
To: ***@freelists.org; ***@freelists.org
Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker


At 04:39 PM 9/5/2006, Jeffery Smith wrote:
>Parker's exact wording is "The firm Franke & Heidecke were ardent and
>proud supporters of Hitler's National Socialist Party and I would
>quickly hasten to add that many other German industrialists also
>supported Hitler, and with large sums of money."
>
>One fellow from the LUG asked me how I could possible listen to music
>conducted by Herbert Von Karajan as he was not opposed to Hitler. I
>suppose that it is the same reason why I drive Japanese cars. I'm not
>buying them for Japan's sake. I'm buying them for my sake.

Herbert von Karajan was an ardent and open
supporter of the Nazi regime to the point where
Speer and his cronies didn't trust him when using
the two Berlin symphonies to signal the need to
evacuate Berlin -- they had to get Bruno Walter
to do this, but von Karajan was left in the dark
for fear that he would denounce the mass
evacuation to the authorities. (They already had
squads of folks going around stringing those they
felt were ready to flee from the nearest
lamp-post.) Walter was a superb conductor and
interpreter, but von Karajan was angelic, despite
his demonic attraction to the Third Reich.

Parker's exuberant but false statement set out
above is just another example of why you need to
keep that salt-shaker at hand when using him as a
source. Anecdotal he is, but reliable he is not
-- I once started listing known errors in his
HISTORY, and this was long before Prochnow came
on the scene. I gave up when I reached 70
obvious errors or so and wasn't even half-way
through the book. Parker is a necessary read
but it is most dangerous to regard what he sets
out as vital unless it is verified from other sources.

Marc



***@aya.yale.edu
Cha robh bàs fir gun ghràs fir!


---
Rollei List

- Post to ***@freelists.org

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[Douglas Nygren]

Marc, Bruno Walter left Germany for Austria after Hitler took over in
1933 and left Austria after the Anschluß.

We exchange a great deal of misinformation here.

Doug



On Sep 5, 2006, at 9:32 PM, Marc James Small wrote:

> At 04:39 PM 9/5/2006, Jeffery Smith wrote:
>> Parker's exact wording is "The firm Franke & Heidecke were ardent and
>> proud
>> supporters of Hitler's National Socialist Party and I would quickly
>> hasten
>> to add that many other German industrialists also supported Hitler,
>> and with
>> large sums of money."
>>
>> One fellow from the LUG asked me how I could possible listen to music
>> conducted by Herbert Von Karajan as he was not opposed to Hitler. I
>> suppose
>> that it is the same reason why I drive Japanese cars. I'm not buying
>> them
>> for Japan's sake. I'm buying them for my sake.
>
> Herbert von Karajan was an ardent and open supporter of the Nazi
> regime to the point where Speer and his cronies didn't trust him when
> using the two Berlin symphonies to signal the need to evacuate Berlin
> -- they had to get Bruno Walter to do this, but von Karajan was left
> in the dark for fear that he would denounce the mass evacuation to the
> authorities. (They already had squads of folks going around stringing
> those they felt were ready to flee from the nearest lamp-post.)
> Walter was a superb conductor and interpreter, but von Karajan was
> angelic, despite his demonic attraction to the Third Reich.
>
> Parker's exuberant but false statement set out above is just another
> example of why you need to keep that salt-shaker at hand when using
> him as a source. Anecdotal he is, but reliable he is not -- I once
> started listing known errors in his HISTORY, and this was long before
> Prochnow came on the scene. I gave up when I reached 70 obvious
> errors or so and wasn't even half-way through the book. Parker is a
> necessary read but it is most dangerous to regard what he sets out as
> vital unless it is verified from other sources.
>
> Marc
>
>
>
> ***@aya.yale.edu
> Cha robh bàs fir gun ghràs fir!
>
>
> ---
> Rollei List
>
> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>
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> in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
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>
> - Online, searchable archives are available at
> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>
>

[Marc James Small]

At 07:50 AM 9/6/2006, Douglas Nygren wrote:
>Marc, Bruno Walter left Germany for Austria
>after Hitler took over in 1933 and left Austria after the Anschluß.
>
>We exchange a great deal of misinformation here.

No, we do not do so, and, pray, do not be an ass.

Allow me to explain why you are being an ass. A
jerk says, "NO! NO! NO!" A helpful soul says,
"Ah! You said Walter but, no, he was out of the
picture by then. They fellow you are discussing was xxx".

My copy of INSIDE THE THIRD REICH is in Richmond,
and I am in Roanoke. Next week, I'll be in
Richmond, and all of my camera references will
remain in Roanoke, to be moved. In six months,
I'll finally have all of my references at hand,
for the first time in a decade.,

Read Speer and find the facts. There were two
symphony orchestras in Berlin and two
conductors. It was the OTHER conductor, not von
Karajan, who was trusted to pass on the message,
and those for whom the message was intended were
urged to attend the non-von Karajan
symphony. Again, read Speer's INSIDE THE THIRD
REICH for details: he was the fellow who set it up.

Marc



***@aya.yale.edu
Cha robh bàs fir gun ghràs fir!

[Peter K.]

What roll film will allow a 9x9cm shot? Or was it sheet film?

On 9/4/06, Jeffery Smith <***@runbox.com> wrote:
>
> Rollei TLR: The History : The Complete Book on the Origins of Twin-Lens
> Photography
> by Ian Parker
>
> The black eye: When Rollei was working on the prototypes for a 9x9 studio
> camera, a rather pro-Nazi Rolleiflex had a professional photographer take
> Hitler's portrait with one of them for use in creating some postage stamps
> wit the Fuhrer's likeness. When it was discovered that the photographer
> was
> Jewish, everyone panicked, the photographer was later carted off, and the
> studio camera project was scuttled.
>
> Jeffery Smith
> New Orleans, LA
> http://www.400tx.com
> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Nygren
> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 4:56 PM
> To: ***@freelists.org
> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker
>
>
> Thank you for the overview. What is the name of the book and the
> author's full name?
>
> What was the black eye?
> Doug
>
>
>
> On Sep 4, 2006, at 1:25 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
>
> > It's a history of how Rollei got started up at the turn of the 20th
> > century
> > by Franke & Heidecke, their initial product line (stereo cameras) and
> > then
> > the subsequent history of their TLRs (through both wars). It's a fairly
> > quick read, but gives you some sort of insight into how large the
> > company
> > grew, when it reached its pinnacle, and how the SLR ultimately brought
> > it
> > down. A nice overview of the company's history with only one
> > unfortunately
> > "black eye" that occurred around WWII.
> >
> > Jeffery Smith
> > New Orleans, LA
> > http://www.400tx.com
> > http://400tx.blogspot.com/
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> > [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Nygren
> > Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 12:16 PM
> > To: ***@freelists.org
> > Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker
> >
> >
> > Jeffrey: I don't know this book. Tell me more about it, please.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Doug
> >
> >
> > On Sep 4, 2006, at 11:03 AM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
> >
> >> I just finished reading Ian Parker's book (for the second time...I
> >> was a Rollei neophyte the first time I read it). I noticed this
> >> morning that there
> >> are two copies of it for sale on e**y. If you live and breathe Rollei,
> >> it's
> >> a good read.
> >>
> >> Jeffery Smith
> >> New Orleans, LA
> >> http://www.400tx.com
> >> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
> >>
> >>
> >> ---
> >> Rollei List
> >>
> >> - Post to ***@freelists.org
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> >> in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
> >>
> >> - Online, searchable archives are available at
> >> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
> >>
> >>
> >
> > ---
> > Rollei List
> >
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> >
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>


--
Peter K
Ó¿Õ¬

[Marc James Small]

At 10:06 PM 9/4/2006, Peter K. wrote:
>What roll film will allow a 9x9cm shot? Or was it sheet film?

Peter

Our own Jerry Lehrer owns one of these Studio
Rolleiflex cameras, though he has not seen it in
a half-century or more: it is stored on the
Correct Side of the US with a relative, while
Jerry insists on residing on the Left Coast.

Marc


***@aya.yale.edu
Cha robh bàs fir gun ghràs fir!

[Peter K.]

Really? If he has not seen it in half a century how does he know it is still
there? :-)




On 9/4/06, Marc James Small <***@aya.yale.edu> wrote:
>
> At 10:06 PM 9/4/2006, Peter K. wrote:
> >What roll film will allow a 9x9cm shot? Or was it sheet film?
>
> Peter
>
> Our own Jerry Lehrer owns one of these Studio
> Rolleiflex cameras, though he has not seen it in
> a half-century or more: it is stored on the
> Correct Side of the US with a relative, while
> Jerry insists on residing on the Left Coast.
>
> Marc
>
>
> ***@aya.yale.edu
> Cha robh bàs fir gun ghràs fir!
>
>
> ---
> Rollei List
>
> - Post to ***@freelists.org
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>
>


--
Peter K
Ó¿Õ¬

[Jerry Lehrer]

Peter,

I don't!

Jerry

"Peter K." wrote:

> Really? If he has not seen it in half a century how does he know it is
> still there? :-)
> On 9/4/06, Marc James Small <***@aya.yale.edu> wrote:
>
> At 10:06 PM 9/4/2006, Peter K. wrote:
> >What roll film will allow a 9x9cm shot? Or was it sheet
> film?
>
> Peter
>
> Our own Jerry Lehrer owns one of these Studio
> Rolleiflex cameras, though he has not seen it in
> a half-century or more: it is stored on the
> Correct Side of the US with a relative, while
> Jerry insists on residing on the Left Coast.
>
> Marc
>
>
> ***@aya.yale.edu
> Cha robh bàs fir gun ghràs fir!
>
>
> ---
> Rollei List
>
> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>
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> 'subscribe'
> in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
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> www.freelists.org
>
> - Online, searchable archives are available at
> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Peter K
> Ó¿Õ¬
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.0.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/438 - Release Date:
> 09/05/2006
>

[Carlos Manuel Freaza]

--- "Peter K." <***@gmail.com> escribió:

> What roll film will allow a 9x9cm shot? Or was it
> sheet film?

The net format was 8.5x8.5 cm and used 122 roll film
intended for six 9x9 exposures or eight 7x9 exposures.
It used a Zeiss Tessar 3.8/100mm lens and a Compur
shutter with a fastest speed of 1/250.
The camera never went into production because being
designed for professional use exclusively, the
projected sales did no justify full-scale production.-

All the best
Carlos





__________________________________________________
Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí.
Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas,
está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta).
¡Probalo ya!
http://www.yahoo.com.ar/respuestas

[Peter K.]

Thank you Carlos. I found this link about Kodak Roll film. Did not realize
it but they made 122 roll film from 1903 through 1971. Quite a run.

Peter K


On 9/4/06, Carlos Manuel Freaza <***@yahoo.com.ar> wrote:
>
> --- "Peter K." <***@gmail.com> escribió:
>
> > What roll film will allow a 9x9cm shot? Or was it
> > sheet film?
>
> The net format was 8.5x8.5 cm and used 122 roll film
> intended for six 9x9 exposures or eight 7x9 exposures.
> It used a Zeiss Tessar 3.8/100mm lens and a Compur
> shutter with a fastest speed of 1/250.
> The camera never went into production because being
> designed for professional use exclusively, the
> projected sales did no justify full-scale production.-
>
> All the best
> Carlos
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí.
> Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas,
> está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta).
> ¡Probalo ya!
> http://www.yahoo.com.ar/respuestas
>
> ---
> Rollei List
>
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>
>


--
Peter K
Ó¿Õ¬

[keith_w]

Peter K. wrote:
> Thank you Carlos. I found this link about Kodak Roll film. Did not
> realize it but they made 122 roll film from 1903 through 1971. Quite a run.
>
> Peter K
>

If Kodak made one size of roll film for 68 years, SOMEone was using it!

What would the cameras have been?

keith whaley

[Jerry Lehrer]

CMF,

Wrong! Mine used a 10cm f4.5 Tessar.

Jerry

Carlos Manuel Freaza wrote:

> --- "Peter K." <***@gmail.com> escribió:
>
> > What roll film will allow a 9x9cm shot? Or was it
> > sheet film?
>
> The net format was 8.5x8.5 cm and used 122 roll film
> intended for six 9x9 exposures or eight 7x9 exposures.
> It used a Zeiss Tessar 3.8/100mm lens and a Compur
> shutter with a fastest speed of 1/250.
> The camera never went into production because being
> designed for professional use exclusively, the
> projected sales did no justify full-scale production.-
>
> All the best
> Carlos
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí.
> Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas,
> está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta).
> ¡Probalo ya!
> http://www.yahoo.com.ar/respuestas
>
> ---
> Rollei List
>
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>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.0.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/438 - Release Date: 09/05/2006

[Carlos Manuel Freaza]

F&H developed several 7x9 and 9x9 prototypes from
1930 using different focal length lenses and
apertures, some 9x9 could take 7x9 frames using masks
and even to use 120 film with adapters.
The 1932 9x9 prototype had the Zeiss Tessar lens
3.8/100mm Serial Number 1126934 and Prochnow shows
photographs taken with this prototype and lens in the
Rollei Report I page 10-255, they are contact prints
reduced for the book, four photographs, and they look
good. There was a 9x9 prototype using a Tessar Zeiss
3.8/100mm # 1126934 and then you are wrong.-

All the best
Carlos



--- Jerry Lehrer <***@pacbell.net> escribió:

> CMF,
>
> Wrong! Mine used a 10cm f4.5 Tessar.
>
> Jerry
>
> Carlos Manuel Freaza wrote:
>
> > --- "Peter K." <***@gmail.com> escribió:
> >
> > > What roll film will allow a 9x9cm shot? Or was
> it
> > > sheet film?
> >
> > The net format was 8.5x8.5 cm and used 122 roll
> film
> > intended for six 9x9 exposures or eight 7x9
> exposures.
> > It used a Zeiss Tessar 3.8/100mm lens and a Compur
> > shutter with a fastest speed of 1/250.
> > The camera never went into production because
> being
> > designed for professional use exclusively, the
> > projected sales did no justify full-scale
> production.-
> >
> > All the best
> > Carlos
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí.
> > Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas,
> > está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta).
> > ¡Probalo ya!
> > http://www.yahoo.com.ar/respuestas
> >
> > ---
> > Rollei List
> >
> > - Post to ***@freelists.org
> >
> > - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
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> > in the subject field OR by logging into
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> >
> > - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> with
> > 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging
> into www.freelists.org
> >
> > - Online, searchable archives are available at
> > http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.0.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/438 -
> Release Date: 09/05/2006
>
> ---
> Rollei List
>
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>
>






__________________________________________________
Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí.
Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas,
está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta).
¡Probalo ya!
http://www.yahoo.com.ar/respuestas

[Jerry Lehrer]

Peter,

I think that I stated a few times that my 9x9 Rollei took 122 roll film.

Jerry

"Peter K." wrote:

> What roll film will allow a 9x9cm shot? Or was it sheet film?
> On 9/4/06, Jeffery Smith <***@runbox.com> wrote:
>
> Rollei TLR: The History : The Complete Book on the Origins
> of Twin-Lens
> Photography
> by Ian Parker
>
> The black eye: When Rollei was working on the prototypes
> for a 9x9 studio
> camera, a rather pro-Nazi Rolleiflex had a professional
> photographer take
> Hitler's portrait with one of them for use in creating some
> postage stamps
> wit the Fuhrer's likeness. When it was discovered that the
> photographer was
> Jewish, everyone panicked, the photographer was later carted
> off, and the
> studio camera project was scuttled.
>
> Jeffery Smith
> New Orleans, LA
> http://www.400tx.com
> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf Of
> Douglas Nygren
> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 4:56 PM
> To: ***@freelists.org
> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian
> Parker
>
>
> Thank you for the overview. What is the name of the book and
> the
> author's full name?
>
> What was the black eye?
> Doug
>
>
>
> On Sep 4, 2006, at 1:25 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
>
> > It's a history of how Rollei got started up at the turn of
> the 20th
> > century
> > by Franke & Heidecke, their initial product line (stereo
> cameras) and
> > then
> > the subsequent history of their TLRs (through both wars).
> It's a fairly
> > quick read, but gives you some sort of insight into how
> large the
> > company
> > grew, when it reached its pinnacle, and how the SLR
> ultimately brought
> > it
> > down. A nice overview of the company's history with only
> one
> > unfortunately
> > "black eye" that occurred around WWII.
> >
> > Jeffery Smith
> > New Orleans, LA
> > http://www.400tx.com
> > http://400tx.blogspot.com/
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> > [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf Of
> Douglas Nygren
> > Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 12:16 PM
> > To: ***@freelists.org
> > Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian
> Parker
> >
> >
> > Jeffrey: I don't know this book. Tell me more about it,
> please.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Doug
> >
> >
> > On Sep 4, 2006, at 11:03 AM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
> >
> >> I just finished reading Ian Parker's book (for the second
> time...I
> >> was a Rollei neophyte the first time I read it). I
> noticed this
> >> morning that there
> >> are two copies of it for sale on e**y. If you live and
> breathe Rollei,
> >> it's
> >> a good read.
> >>
> >> Jeffery Smith
> >> New Orleans, LA
> >> http://www.400tx.com
> >> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
> >>
> >>
> >> ---
> >> Rollei List
> >>
> >> - Post to ***@freelists.org
> >>
> >> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with
> 'subscribe' in
> >> the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
> >>
> >> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with
> 'unsubscribe'
> >> in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>
> >>
> >> - Online, searchable archives are available at
> >> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
> >>
> >>
> >
> > ---
> > Rollei List
> >
> > - Post to ***@freelists.org
> >
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> > the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
> >
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> 'unsubscribe'
> > in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
> >
> > - Online, searchable archives are available at
> > http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Rollei List
> >
> > - Post to ***@freelists.org
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> 'subscribe' in
> > the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
> >
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> 'unsubscribe'
> > in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
> >
> > - Online, searchable archives are available at
> > http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
> >
> >
>
> ---
> Rollei List
>
> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>
> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with
> 'subscribe'
> in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>
> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with
> 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into
> www.freelists.org
>
> - Online, searchable archives are available at
> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>
>
>
> ---
> Rollei List
>
> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>
> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with
> 'subscribe'
> in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
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> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with
> 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into
> www.freelists.org
>
> - Online, searchable archives are available at
> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Peter K
> Ó¿Õ¬
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.0.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/437 - Release Date:
> 09/04/2006
>

[Jim Brick]

At 10:03 AM 9/4/2006 -0500, Jeffery Smith wrote:

>I noticed this morning that there
>are two copies of it for sale on e**y.

There are several copies on Amazon for half the e**y price, ie; $13 - $19.

Jim

[Neil Gould]

Marc,

Recently, you wrote:

> Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 22:21:22 -0400
> From: Marc James Small <***@aya.yale.edu>
>
>[...] The German metallurgy, chemical,=20
> ship-building, and automotive industries all=20
> played closely with the Nazis, but not F&H or the=20
> other camera companies other than KW (owned by an=20
> American who had got it at a fire-sale price when=20
> the former Jewish owners were forced out -- both=20
> Jewish families, though, DID make it to the US=20
> safely, one to Cleveland and the other to LA,=20
> where some of the descendants still ran a camera=20
> store as recently as a decade back).
>
Do you have any information about the family that made it to Cleveland?

Neil

[Marc James Small]

At 09:06 AM 9/5/2006, Neil Gould wrote:



>Do you have any information about the family that made it to Cleveland?
>

Not off the top of my head. As part of the
takeover, John Noble traded his ownership of a
small steelworks to one of the Jewish guys --
either Guthe or Thorsche, while the other family
went to LA, having taken a cash buy-out. My
references are packed away at present pending my move.

Marc



***@aya.yale.edu
Cha robh bàs fir gun ghràs fir!

[D***@aol.com]

In a message dated 9/5/06 2:02:56 PM, ***@dslextreme.com writes:


> What would the cameras have been?
>

I think the large folders like the Kodak Autographics and some cased cameras
that used roll film as opposed to sheet film, which were quite beautiful
cameras. Why it kept the film going until 1971 would be interesting.

[Aaron Reece]

You think that's something? 620 and 127 were discontinued in 1995.
116 was produced from 1899 until 1984!

Check out http://www.nwmangum.com/Kodak/FilmHist.html . There is a
chart of Kodak rollfilms at the bottom.

Best regards,
Aaron


On Sep 5, 2006, at 2:07 PM, ***@aol.com wrote:

>
> In a message dated 9/5/06 2:02:56 PM, ***@dslextreme.com writes:
>
>
>> What would the cameras have been?
>
>
> I think the large folders like the Kodak Autographics and some
> cased cameras that used roll film as opposed to sheet film, which
> were quite beautiful cameras. Why it kept the film going until 1971
> would be interesting.

[Peter J Nebergall]

And under Communism, manufacturers certainly did the same... Only
Stalin's photo doesn't draw the same knee-jerk -- though by God it
should.

PJ Nebergall

On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 19:35:38 -0400 Allen Zak <***@columbus.rr.com>
writes:
>
> On Sep 5, 2006, at 4:44 PM, John Jensen wrote:
>
> >
> > I have a Rollei book from the 30s at home ('The Golden
> > Book'???) with numerous factory pictures in it. One
> > is of the exterior of the factory with a hakenkreuz
> > flag on a flagpole. Another is an interior shot with
> > a portrait on the far wall with an image suspiously
> > like that of Adolph's. Wrong? Well, to do otherwise
> > at the time would have caused much trouble.
>
> During the mid 1950s, in a collection of German photo industry
> promotional publications, I came across that same (I think) book.
> It
> contained a number of Rolleiflex photographs, most ordinary salon
> type
> pictures, but included were several flattering photos of Nazi
> officials
> and regalia. These, along with the aforementioned factory view with
>
> Nazi flag at each corner of the building, led me to believe that
> either/or Francke and Heidecke were ardent Nazi supporters or were
> trying to curry favor with them. Parker's assertions of F & H
> complicity with German fascism was entirely consistent with this
> because none of the other books and pamphlets made any reference to
> the
> regime, except perhaps for a distant ship in a harbor displaying a
> flag, or some other unavoidable Nazi artifact. It made sense to me
>
> that during the 30s, German companies trading on an international
> market would try to avoid a touchy political controversy unless they
>
> had some sort of agenda.
> There is no evidence, however, that F & H or the German photo
> industry
> as a whole, committed war crimes and some, Leitz and Zeiss among
> them,
> made efforts to protect their Jewish employees.
>
> Allen Zak
>
> ---
> Rollei List
>
> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>
> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'subscribe'
> in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>
> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with
> 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into
> www.freelists.org
>
> - Online, searchable archives are available at
> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>
>

[Peter J Nebergall]

Because of my mother (concert pianist) I met a lot of conductors. ALL
(except Thomas Schippers) were big egos. I was a brat undefoot -- but
Karajan wasn't nasty to me.
Mom was discovered by Beecham -- now THAT was an ego!

PJ Nebergall

On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 18:57:22 -0500 "Jeffery Smith" <***@runbox.com>
writes:
> I think that Von Karajan probably had the biggest ego of just about
> anyone
> in the 20th century. I wouldn't expect him to have repented. He felt
> himself
> incapable of error.
>
> Jeffery Smith
> New Orleans, LA
> http://www.400tx.com
> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Allen Zak
> Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 6:47 PM
> To: ***@freelists.org
> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker
>
>
>
> On Sep 5, 2006, at 4:39 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
>
> > Parker's exact wording is "The firm Franke & Heidecke were ardent
> and
> > proud
> > supporters of Hitler's National Socialist Party and I would
> quickly
> > hasten
> > to add that many other German industrialists also supported
> Hitler,
> > and with
> > large sums of money."
> >
> > One fellow from the LUG asked me how I could possible listen to
> music
> > conducted by Herbert Von Karajan as he was not opposed to Hitler.
> I
> > suppose that it is the same reason why I drive Japanese cars. I'm
> not
> > buying them
> > for Japan's sake. I'm buying them for my sake.
> >
> > Jeffery Smith
> > New Orleans, LA
> > http://www.400tx.com
> > http://400tx.blogspot.com/
>
> Von Karajan, who joined in 1935, was a member of the Nazi Party.
> Afterward, he was unrepentant. I never bought any of his recordings
>
> because I don't support Nazis, no matter what they are selling.
>
> Allen Zak
>
> ---
> Rollei List
>
> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>
> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'subscribe'
> in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>
> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with
> 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into
> www.freelists.org
>
> - Online, searchable archives are available at
> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>
>
>
> ---
> Rollei List
>
> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>
> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'subscribe'
> in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>
> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with
> 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into
> www.freelists.org
>
> - Online, searchable archives are available at
> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>
>

[Allen Zak]

Sir Thomas Beecham once called me an idiot, I think not deservedly.
Other than that, he was a pretty good conductor.

Allen Zak

On Sep 6, 2006, at 9:50 AM, Peter J Nebergall wrote:

> Because of my mother (concert pianist) I met a lot of conductors. ALL
> (except Thomas Schippers) were big egos. I was a brat undefoot -- but
> Karajan wasn't nasty to me.
> Mom was discovered by Beecham -- now THAT was an ego!
>
> PJ Nebergall
>
> On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 18:57:22 -0500 "Jeffery Smith" <***@runbox.com>
> writes:
>> I think that Von Karajan probably had the biggest ego of just about
>> anyone
>> in the 20th century. I wouldn't expect him to have repented. He felt
>> himself
>> incapable of error.
>>
>> Jeffery Smith
>> New Orleans, LA
>> http://www.400tx.com
>> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
>> [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Allen Zak
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 6:47 PM
>> To: ***@freelists.org
>> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 5, 2006, at 4:39 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
>>
>>> Parker's exact wording is "The firm Franke & Heidecke were ardent
>> and
>>> proud
>>> supporters of Hitler's National Socialist Party and I would
>> quickly
>>> hasten
>>> to add that many other German industrialists also supported
>> Hitler,
>>> and with
>>> large sums of money."
>>>
>>> One fellow from the LUG asked me how I could possible listen to
>> music
>>> conducted by Herbert Von Karajan as he was not opposed to Hitler.
>> I
>>> suppose that it is the same reason why I drive Japanese cars. I'm
>> not
>>> buying them
>>> for Japan's sake. I'm buying them for my sake.
>>>
>>> Jeffery Smith
>>> New Orleans, LA
>>> http://www.400tx.com
>>> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
>>
>> Von Karajan, who joined in 1935, was a member of the Nazi Party.
>> Afterward, he was unrepentant. I never bought any of his recordings
>>
>> because I don't support Nazis, no matter what they are selling.
>>
>> Allen Zak
>>
>> ---
>> Rollei List
>>
>> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>>
>> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'subscribe'
>> in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>>
>> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with
>> 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into
>> www.freelists.org
>>
>> - Online, searchable archives are available at
>> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Rollei List
>>
>> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>>
>> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'subscribe'
>> in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>>
>> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with
>> 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into
>> www.freelists.org
>>
>> - Online, searchable archives are available at
>> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>>
>>
>
> ---
> Rollei List
>
> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>
> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'subscribe'
> in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>
> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with
> 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>
> - Online, searchable archives are available at
> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>

[Jeffery Smith]

If you haven't read the "The Maestro Myth: Great Conductors in
Pursuit of Power", please do so. It is a bit of a gossipy hoot.


At 08:50 AM 9/6/2006, you wrote:
>Because of my mother (concert pianist) I met a lot of conductors. ALL
>(except Thomas Schippers) were big egos. I was a brat undefoot -- but
>Karajan wasn't nasty to me.
>Mom was discovered by Beecham -- now THAT was an ego!
>
>PJ Nebergall
>
>On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 18:57:22 -0500 "Jeffery Smith" <***@runbox.com>
>writes:
> > I think that Von Karajan probably had the biggest ego of just about
> > anyone
> > in the 20th century. I wouldn't expect him to have repented. He felt
> > himself
> > incapable of error.
> >
> > Jeffery Smith
> > New Orleans, LA
> > http://www.400tx.com
> > http://400tx.blogspot.com/
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> > [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Allen Zak
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 6:47 PM
> > To: ***@freelists.org
> > Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sep 5, 2006, at 4:39 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
> >
> > > Parker's exact wording is "The firm Franke & Heidecke were ardent
> > and
> > > proud
> > > supporters of Hitler's National Socialist Party and I would
> > quickly
> > > hasten
> > > to add that many other German industrialists also supported
> > Hitler,
> > > and with
> > > large sums of money."
> > >
> > > One fellow from the LUG asked me how I could possible listen to
> > music
> > > conducted by Herbert Von Karajan as he was not opposed to Hitler.
> > I
> > > suppose that it is the same reason why I drive Japanese cars. I'm
> > not
> > > buying them
> > > for Japan's sake. I'm buying them for my sake.
> > >
> > > Jeffery Smith
> > > New Orleans, LA
> > > http://www.400tx.com
> > > http://400tx.blogspot.com/
> >
> > Von Karajan, who joined in 1935, was a member of the Nazi Party.
> > Afterward, he was unrepentant. I never bought any of his recordings
> >
> > because I don't support Nazis, no matter what they are selling.
> >
> > Allen Zak
> >
> > ---
> > Rollei List
> >
> > - Post to ***@freelists.org
> >
> > - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'subscribe'
> > in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
> >
> > - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with
> > 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into
> > www.freelists.org
> >
> > - Online, searchable archives are available at
> > http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Rollei List
> >
> > - Post to ***@freelists.org
> >
> > - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'subscribe'
> > in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
> >
> > - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with
> > 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into
> > www.freelists.org
> >
> > - Online, searchable archives are available at
> > http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
> >
> >
>
>---
>Rollei List
>
>- Post to ***@freelists.org
>
>- Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'subscribe'
>in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>
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>'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>
>- Online, searchable archives are available at
>http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list

[Peter J Nebergall]

Mom was scared to death of him. She was 13.

P.J. Nebergall

On Wed, 6 Sep 2006 11:57:00 -0400 Allen Zak <***@columbus.rr.com>
writes:
> Sir Thomas Beecham once called me an idiot, I think not deservedly.
> Other than that, he was a pretty good conductor.
>
> Allen Zak
>
> On Sep 6, 2006, at 9:50 AM, Peter J Nebergall wrote:
>
> > Because of my mother (concert pianist) I met a lot of conductors.
> ALL
> > (except Thomas Schippers) were big egos. I was a brat undefoot --
> but
> > Karajan wasn't nasty to me.
> > Mom was discovered by Beecham -- now THAT was an ego!
> >
> > PJ Nebergall
> >
> > On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 18:57:22 -0500 "Jeffery Smith" <***@runbox.com>
> > writes:
> >> I think that Von Karajan probably had the biggest ego of just
> about
> >> anyone
> >> in the 20th century. I wouldn't expect him to have repented. He
> felt
> >> himself
> >> incapable of error.
> >>
> >> Jeffery Smith
> >> New Orleans, LA
> >> http://www.400tx.com
> >> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> >> [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Allen Zak
> >> Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 6:47 PM
> >> To: ***@freelists.org
> >> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sep 5, 2006, at 4:39 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
> >>
> >>> Parker's exact wording is "The firm Franke & Heidecke were
> ardent
> >> and
> >>> proud
> >>> supporters of Hitler's National Socialist Party and I would
> >> quickly
> >>> hasten
> >>> to add that many other German industrialists also supported
> >> Hitler,
> >>> and with
> >>> large sums of money."
> >>>
> >>> One fellow from the LUG asked me how I could possible listen to
> >> music
> >>> conducted by Herbert Von Karajan as he was not opposed to
> Hitler.
> >> I
> >>> suppose that it is the same reason why I drive Japanese cars.
> I'm
> >> not
> >>> buying them
> >>> for Japan's sake. I'm buying them for my sake.
> >>>
> >>> Jeffery Smith
> >>> New Orleans, LA
> >>> http://www.400tx.com
> >>> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
> >>
> >> Von Karajan, who joined in 1935, was a member of the Nazi Party.
> >> Afterward, he was unrepentant. I never bought any of his
> recordings
> >>
> >> because I don't support Nazis, no matter what they are selling.
> >>
> >> Allen Zak
> >>
> >> ---
> >> Rollei List
> >>
> >> - Post to ***@freelists.org
> >>
> >> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'subscribe'
> >> in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
> >>
> >> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with
> >> 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into
> >> www.freelists.org
> >>
> >> - Online, searchable archives are available at
> >> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---
> >> Rollei List
> >>
> >> - Post to ***@freelists.org
> >>
> >> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'subscribe'
> >> in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
> >>
> >> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with
> >> 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into
> >> www.freelists.org
> >>
> >> - Online, searchable archives are available at
> >> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
> >>
> >>
> >
> > ---
> > Rollei List
> >
> > - Post to ***@freelists.org
> >
> > - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'subscribe'
> > in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
> >
> > - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with
> > 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into
> www.freelists.org
> >
> > - Online, searchable archives are available at
> > http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
> >
>
> ---
> Rollei List
>
> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>
> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'subscribe'
> in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
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> 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into
> www.freelists.org
>
> - Online, searchable archives are available at
> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>
>

[Craig Roberts]

The nicest world-class, old school conductor I ever met was Bruno
Walter. For years, I thought the nastiest was Fritz Reiner. My father
played with the Chicago Symphony when I was a boy and I attended
rehearsals from time to time. I thought these sessions were pretty neat
until the day Reiner screamed at my dad for missing a cue. That scared
the geewhillikers out of me and steered me away from music as a career.

Craig
all better now in Washington, DC

[Jeffery Smith]

One of the math faculty here went to New York and attended a concert
of the NYP conducted by Kurt Masur. Some distance into the 1st
movement, some guy kept coughing, so Masur stopped the orchestra,
turned around, and yelled "SHUT UP!!!!!" That didn't do much for his image.


At 01:17 PM 9/6/2006, you wrote:
>The nicest world-class, old school conductor I ever met was Bruno
>Walter. For years, I thought the nastiest was Fritz Reiner. My
>father played with the Chicago Symphony when I was a boy and I
>attended rehearsals from time to time. I thought these sessions
>were pretty neat until the day Reiner screamed at my dad for missing
>a cue. That scared the geewhillikers out of me and steered me away
>from music as a career.
>
>Craig
>all better now in Washington, DC
>
>---
>Rollei List
>
>- Post to ***@freelists.org
>
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>the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>
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>
>- Online, searchable archives are available at
>http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>
>

[dnygr]

Do you know Beecham's comment on Hitler who was attending a performance of, if memory serves me right, La Traviata? I'll check the opera and write later tonight.

Doug


---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Peter J Nebergall <***@juno.com>
Reply-To: ***@freelists.org
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 08:50:29 -0500

>Because of my mother (concert pianist) I met a lot of conductors. ALL
>(except Thomas Schippers) were big egos. I was a brat undefoot -- but
>Karajan wasn't nasty to me.
>Mom was discovered by Beecham -- now THAT was an ego!
>
>PJ Nebergall
>
>On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 18:57:22 -0500 "Jeffery Smith" <***@runbox.com>
>writes:
>> I think that Von Karajan probably had the biggest ego of just about
>> anyone
>> in the 20th century. I wouldn't expect him to have repented. He felt
>> himself
>> incapable of error.
>>
>> Jeffery Smith
>> New Orleans, LA
>> http://www.400tx.com
>> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
>> [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Allen Zak
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 6:47 PM
>> To: ***@freelists.org
>> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 5, 2006, at 4:39 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
>>
>> > Parker's exact wording is "The firm Franke & Heidecke were ardent
>> and
>> > proud
>> > supporters of Hitler's National Socialist Party and I would
>> quickly
>> > hasten
>> > to add that many other German industrialists also supported
>> Hitler,
>> > and with
>> > large sums of money."
>> >
>> > One fellow from the LUG asked me how I could possible listen to
>> music
>> > conducted by Herbert Von Karajan as he was not opposed to Hitler.
>> I
>> > suppose that it is the same reason why I drive Japanese cars. I'm
>> not
>> > buying them
>> > for Japan's sake. I'm buying them for my sake.
>> >
>> > Jeffery Smith
>> > New Orleans, LA
>> > http://www.400tx.com
>> > http://400tx.blogspot.com/
>>
>> Von Karajan, who joined in 1935, was a member of the Nazi Party.
>> Afterward, he was unrepentant. I never bought any of his recordings
>>
>> because I don't support Nazis, no matter what they are selling.
>>
>> Allen Zak
>>
>> ---
>> Rollei List
>>
>> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>>
>> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'subscribe'
>> in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>>
>> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with
>> 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into
>> www.freelists.org
>>
>> - Online, searchable archives are available at
>> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Rollei List
>>
>> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>>
>> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'subscribe'
>> in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>>
>> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with
>> 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into
>> www.freelists.org
>>
>> - Online, searchable archives are available at
>> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>>
>>
>
>---
>Rollei List
>
>- Post to ***@freelists.org
>
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>in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>
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>
>- Online, searchable archives are available at
>http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>
>

[Jeffery Smith]

I recall that he described harpsichord music as skeletons copulating
on a tin roof.

At 01:14 PM 9/6/2006, you wrote:
>Do you know Beecham's comment on Hitler who was attending a
>performance of, if memory serves me right, La Traviata? I'll check
>the opera and write later tonight.
>
>Doug
>
>
>---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
>From: Peter J Nebergall <***@juno.com>
>Reply-To: ***@freelists.org
>Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 08:50:29 -0500
>
> >Because of my mother (concert pianist) I met a lot of conductors. ALL
> >(except Thomas Schippers) were big egos. I was a brat undefoot -- but
> >Karajan wasn't nasty to me.
> >Mom was discovered by Beecham -- now THAT was an ego!
> >
> >PJ Nebergall
> >
> >On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 18:57:22 -0500 "Jeffery Smith" <***@runbox.com>
> >writes:
> >> I think that Von Karajan probably had the biggest ego of just about
> >> anyone
> >> in the 20th century. I wouldn't expect him to have repented. He felt
> >> himself
> >> incapable of error.
> >>
> >> Jeffery Smith
> >> New Orleans, LA
> >> http://www.400tx.com
> >> http://400tx.blogspot.com/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
> >> [mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Allen Zak
> >> Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 6:47 PM
> >> To: ***@freelists.org
> >> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sep 5, 2006, at 4:39 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
> >>
> >> > Parker's exact wording is "The firm Franke & Heidecke were ardent
> >> and
> >> > proud
> >> > supporters of Hitler's National Socialist Party and I would
> >> quickly
> >> > hasten
> >> > to add that many other German industrialists also supported
> >> Hitler,
> >> > and with
> >> > large sums of money."
> >> >
> >> > One fellow from the LUG asked me how I could possible listen to
> >> music
> >> > conducted by Herbert Von Karajan as he was not opposed to Hitler.
> >> I
> >> > suppose that it is the same reason why I drive Japanese cars. I'm
> >> not
> >> > buying them
> >> > for Japan's sake. I'm buying them for my sake.
> >> >
> >> > Jeffery Smith
> >> > New Orleans, LA
> >> > http://www.400tx.com
> >> > http://400tx.blogspot.com/
> >>
> >> Von Karajan, who joined in 1935, was a member of the Nazi Party.
> >> Afterward, he was unrepentant. I never bought any of his recordings
> >>
> >> because I don't support Nazis, no matter what they are selling.
> >>
> >> Allen Zak
> >>
> >> ---
> >> Rollei List
> >>
> >> - Post to ***@freelists.org
> >>
> >> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'subscribe'
> >> in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
> >>
> >> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with
> >> 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into
> >> www.freelists.org
> >>
> >> - Online, searchable archives are available at
> >> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---
> >> Rollei List
> >>
> >> - Post to ***@freelists.org
> >>
> >> - Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'subscribe'
> >> in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
> >>
> >> - Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with
> >> 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into
> >> www.freelists.org
> >>
> >> - Online, searchable archives are available at
> >> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
> >>
> >>
> >
> >---
> >Rollei List
> >
> >- Post to ***@freelists.org
> >
> >- Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with 'subscribe'
> >in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
> >
> >- Unsubscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org with
> >'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
> >
> >- Online, searchable archives are available at
> >http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
> >
> >
>
>---
>Rollei List
>
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>
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>in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
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>
>- Online, searchable archives are available at
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[dnygr]

Walter left after the Nazis came, both places. I have no idea what time frame you are talking about. That was not in your initial posting. Which year. Everything changes at the end of January 1933.

Doug


---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Marc James Small <***@infionline.net>
Reply-To: ***@freelists.org
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 16:48:35 -0400

>At 07:50 AM 9/6/2006, Douglas Nygren wrote:
>>Marc, Bruno Walter left Germany for Austria
>>after Hitler took over in 1933 and left Austria after the Anschluß.
>>
>>We exchange a great deal of misinformation here.
>
>No, we do not do so, and, pray, do not be an ass.
>
>Allow me to explain why you are being an ass. A
>jerk says, "NO! NO! NO!" A helpful soul says,
>"Ah! You said Walter but, no, he was out of the
>picture by then. They fellow you are discussing was xxx".
>
>My copy of INSIDE THE THIRD REICH is in Richmond,
>and I am in Roanoke. Next week, I'll be in
>Richmond, and all of my camera references will
>remain in Roanoke, to be moved. In six months,
>I'll finally have all of my references at hand,
>for the first time in a decade.,
>
>Read Speer and find the facts. There were two
>symphony orchestras in Berlin and two
>conductors. It was the OTHER conductor, not von
>Karajan, who was trusted to pass on the message,
>and those for whom the message was intended were
>urged to attend the non-von Karajan
>symphony. Again, read Speer's INSIDE THE THIRD
>REICH for details: he was the fellow who set it up.
>
>Marc
>
>
>
>***@aya.yale.edu
>Cha robh bàs fir gun ghràs fir!
>
>
>---
>Rollei List
>
>- Post to ***@freelists.org
>
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>
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>http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>
>

[Marc James Small]

At 05:09 PM 9/6/2006, dnygr wrote:

>Walter left after the Nazis came, both places. I
>have no idea what time frame you are talking
>about. That was not in your initial posting.
>Which year. Everything changes at the end of January 1933.
>
>Doug

This is so much gibberish.

Marc



***@aya.yale.edu
Cha robh bàs fir gun ghràs fir!

[Jeffery Smith]

Well, this is the last time I tell this group
that there is a Rollei TLR book for sale on e**y! ;-)

Jeffery

At 04:26 PM 9/6/2006, you wrote:
>At 05:09 PM 9/6/2006, dnygr wrote:
>
>>Walter left after the Nazis came, both places.
>>I have no idea what time frame you are talking
>>about. That was not in your initial posting.
>>Which year. Everything changes at the end of January 1933.
>>
>>Doug
>
>This is so much gibberish.
>
>Marc
>
>
>
>***@aya.yale.edu
>Cha robh bàs fir gun ghràs fir!
>
>
>---
>Rollei List
>
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>
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>with 'subscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>
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>
>- Online, searchable archives are available at
>http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>
>

[Craig Roberts]

Jeffery Smith wrote:

"...there is a Rollei TLR book for sale on e**y! ;-) "

Really? No kiddin'? Please -- tell us about it. :-)

Craig

[Jeffery Smith]

No! There's no book! There never was one! Whoever said there was one has his
facts all wrong!! ;-)

Jeffery Smith
New Orleans, LA
http://www.400tx.com
http://400tx.blogspot.com/

Jeffery Smith wrote:

"...there is a Rollei TLR book for sale on e**y! ;-) "

Really? No kiddin'? Please -- tell us about it. :-)

Craig



---
Rollei List

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[dnygr]

Sure is.


---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Marc James Small <***@infionline.net>
Reply-To: ***@freelists.org
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 17:26:15 -0400

>At 05:09 PM 9/6/2006, dnygr wrote:
>
>>Walter left after the Nazis came, both places. I
>>have no idea what time frame you are talking
>>about. That was not in your initial posting.
>>Which year. Everything changes at the end of January 1933.
>>
>>Doug
>
>This is so much gibberish.
>
>Marc
>
>
>
>***@aya.yale.edu
>Cha robh bàs fir gun ghràs fir!
>
>
>---
>Rollei List
>
>- Post to ***@freelists.org
>
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>in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>
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>
>- Online, searchable archives are available at
>http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>
>

[dnygr]

Seems the discussion went off some, though I found the reference to the book to be of interest. I found a copy and will read it.

Doug


---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Jeffery Smith <***@runbox.com>
Reply-To: ***@freelists.org
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 16:39:50 -0500

>Well, this is the last time I tell this group
>that there is a Rollei TLR book for sale on e**y! ;-)
>
>Jeffery
>
>At 04:26 PM 9/6/2006, you wrote:
>>At 05:09 PM 9/6/2006, dnygr wrote:
>>
>>>Walter left after the Nazis came, both places.
>>>I have no idea what time frame you are talking
>>>about. That was not in your initial posting.
>>>Which year. Everything changes at the end of January 1933.
>>>
>>>Doug
>>
>>This is so much gibberish.
>>
>>Marc
>>
>>
>>
>>***@aya.yale.edu
>>Cha robh bàs fir gun ghràs fir!
>>
>>
>>---
>>Rollei List
>>
>>- Post to ***@freelists.org
>>
>>- Subscribe at rollei_list-***@freelists.org
>>with 'subscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>>
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>>rollei_list-***@freelists.org with
>>'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>>
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>>http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>>
>>
>
>
>---
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>

[C***@aol.com]

In a message dated 9/6/2006 6:50:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, ***@runbox.com
writes:
No! There's no book! There never was one! Whoever said there was one has his
facts all wrong!! ;-)

Jeffery Smith
New Orleans, LA
http://www.400tx.com
http://400tx.blogspot.com/

Jeffery Smith wrote:

"...there is a Rollei TLR book for sale on e**y! ;-) "

Really? No kiddin'? Please -- tell us about it. :-)

Craig
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This may be why references to for sale items is reserved for Fridays only.
See what happens?

[A***@telefonica.net]

Carlos,

Yes, and it is worth noting that fascism was not a German phenomenon
but a European one. There was even a UK Fascist party and the King of
England was a Nazi sympathiser... Americans like to divide the world
into the good and the bad guys, but the world is not like that.

Antonio

----Mensaje original----
De: ***@yahoo.com.ar
Recibido: 08/09/2006 0:12
Para: <***@freelists.org>
Asunto: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker

--- Allen Zak <***@columbus.rr.com> escribió:

> Apart from those enabling the rise of fascism (Fritz
> Thyssen again; Oh
> the irony!), I don't hold mainstream German
> businessmen of that time
> as criminal for not confronting the regime. But
> when it came to the
> more odious directives, such as those violating
> human rights, more
> should have resisted. What they faced was possibly
> prison, loss of
> property, but very unlikely their lives, a small
> price to pay for one's
> soul.
>
> Businessmen like Oskar Schindler and John Rabe are
> rare in any society,
> but represent a higher standard than those who
> accommodate. In that
> context, Francke and Heidecke were not criminals and
> they made a great
> product. It could have been worse. That it wasn't
> better; oh, well.


Von Stauffenberg, Erich von Rommel deaths and hundreds
of German militaries, politicians and civilians killed
after the 20 of July 1944 attempt against Hitler
demonstrate there was a serious German resistance
against the Nazis and this attempt happened after
other several previous attempts like the attempt
against the Hitlers's airplane.
Von Stauffenberg started to conspire against Hitler
from 1942 in Russia when he disliked some SS actions
and then the resistance was not an issue because
Germany was losing the war.
If someone did not put the Staunffenberg's briefcase
behind one of the thick woods that supported the table
where Hitler was talking that day in Östpreussen, the
history could be different.-

It would be a very large message and discussion, a
complete OT to talk about the Nazism origin in Germany
and why this party became so powerful in that country,
but there were obvious extraordinary causes that can
be known reading any objective History book, the
causes justify nothing but they explain the history.

All the best
Carlos






__________________________________________________
Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí.
Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas,
está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta).
¡Probalo ya!
http://www.yahoo.com.ar/respuestas

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[redleica]

The leading fascist in England was from my home county Derbyshire, his name was Mosley the government locked him up during the war and the English King Edward who was a Nazi smypathiser was "kicked out" of England.
Overall I don't think its a case of good and bad in the sense implied however its a case of when bad ovtweighs good in a system and you end up with a fascist rule like Germany or variuos South American countries.
Just my 2 pesetas.
Good documentary material for a Rollie though.
Thanks for your message,
God bless You.
Marvin.

[Nick Roberts]

Well, Oswald Mosley was certainly leader of the British Union of Fascists, and prior to that had been a Member of Parliament as a member of both the Conservative and Labour parties, and is also incidentally the father of Max Mosley.

Edward - well, for all that he appears to have been a facsist symapthiser, his abdication was not related to that, nor was his departure from England - however, it is I think true to say that his role as Governer of the Bahamas was intended to keep him well and truly out of the way until the war ended.

----- Original Message ----
From: redleica <***@threehk.blackberry.com>
To: ***@freelists.org
Sent: Friday, 8 September, 2006 9:54:23 AM
Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker


The leading fascist in England was from my home county Derbyshire, his name was Mosley the government locked him up during the war and the English King Edward who was a Nazi smypathiser was "kicked out" of England.
Overall I don't think its a case of good and bad in the sense implied however its a case of when bad ovtweighs good in a system and you end up with a fascist rule like Germany or variuos South American countries.
Just my 2 pesetas.
Good documentary material for a Rollie though.
Thanks for your message,
God bless You.
Marvin.
---
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[redleica]

Good points Nick. I would conclude from what you have stated that Mosley was at one time a conservative and then a labourite and then as the leader of the British facsist party a British fascist.
I do think however that Edward was forced into abdication partly because of his political views and his subsequent posting to Bermuda was to reinforce the abdication at a very sensitive time in British history.
Thamkfuly the extreme views which held sway in Europe at the time such as forced sterilisations of those unfit to be part of society, never gained the political momentum in Brittan that they did in other countries.
Just my 2 quids worth.
Who is Max Mosley?
Thanks for your message,
God bless You.
Marvin.

-----Original Message-----
From: Nick Roberts <***@yahoo.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 09:37:16
To:***@freelists.org
Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker

Well, Oswald Mosley was certainly leader of the British Union of Fascists, and prior to that had been a Member of Parliament as a member of both the Conservative and Labour parties, and is also incidentally the father of Max Mosley.

Edward - well, for all that he appears to have been a facsist symapthiser, his abdication was not related to that, nor was his departure from England - however, it is I think true to say that his role as Governer of the Bahamas was intended to keep him well and truly out of the way until the war ended.

----- Original Message ----
From: redleica <***@threehk.blackberry.com>
To: ***@freelists.org
Sent: Friday, 8 September, 2006 9:54:23 AM
Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker


The leading fascist in England was from my home county Derbyshire, his name was Mosley the government locked him up during the war and the English King Edward who was a Nazi smypathiser was "kicked out" of England.
Overall I don't think its a case of good and bad in the sense implied however its a case of when bad ovtweighs good in a system and you end up with a fascist rule like Germany or variuos South American countries.
Just my 2 pesetas.
Good documentary material for a Rollie though.
Thanks for your message,
God bless You.
Marvin.
---
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[Nick Roberts]

Yes, Mosley started as a Conservative, then became an Independant, then joined Labour, then set up his own party which eventually became the BUF. Incidentally, after the war he set up yet another party to campaign for a United Europe.

Max Mosley controls the FIA, the governing body of world motorsport.

Nick

----- Original Message ----
From: redleica <***@threehk.blackberry.com>
To: ***@freelists.org
Sent: Friday, 8 September, 2006 12:16:19 PM
Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker


Good points Nick. I would conclude from what you have stated that Mosley was at one time a conservative and then a labourite and then as the leader of the British facsist party a British fascist.
I do think however that Edward was forced into abdication partly because of his political views and his subsequent posting to Bermuda was to reinforce the abdication at a very sensitive time in British history.
Thamkfuly the extreme views which held sway in Europe at the time such as forced sterilisations of those unfit to be part of society, never gained the political momentum in Brittan that they did in other countries.
Just my 2 quids worth.
Who is Max Mosley?
Thanks for your message,
God bless You.
Marvin.

-----Original Message-----
From: Nick Roberts <***@yahoo.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 09:37:16
To:***@freelists.org
Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker

Well, Oswald Mosley was certainly leader of the British Union of Fascists, and prior to that had been a Member of Parliament as a member of both the Conservative and Labour parties, and is also incidentally the father of Max Mosley.

Edward - well, for all that he appears to have been a facsist symapthiser, his abdication was not related to that, nor was his departure from England - however, it is I think true to say that his role as Governer of the Bahamas was intended to keep him well and truly out of the way until the war ended.

----- Original Message ----
From: redleica <***@threehk.blackberry.com>
To: ***@freelists.org
Sent: Friday, 8 September, 2006 9:54:23 AM
Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker


The leading fascist in England was from my home county Derbyshire, his name was Mosley the government locked him up during the war and the English King Edward who was a Nazi smypathiser was "kicked out" of England.
Overall I don't think its a case of good and bad in the sense implied however its a case of when bad ovtweighs good in a system and you end up with a fascist rule like Germany or variuos South American countries.
Just my 2 pesetas.
Good documentary material for a Rollie though.
Thanks for your message,
God bless You.
Marvin.
---
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F‰ez"â²Óè²Ûh®‰ez)b²×ëyéb²Û(®®nÇ+‰·š¶º%•è¥ŠËkz«ž²×ëyéb²Û(®"¶.nÇ+‰·¢žØ^²æãyË_‰é]9ò–ˆ Šx"žÚ0Ãëyéb²Û(®'²æìr¸›y«k¢Y^ŠX¬¶·ª¹ë-~·ž–+-²ŠàÂ+aº{.nÇ+‰·¢žØ^²æãyË_‰é]9ò–ˆ Šx"žÚ0Ãëyéb²Û(®§–)Þ±æ«r›•æ«r¯zÆ«y«ÚŠV›•æ­†Ûiÿü0ÁúÞzX¬¶Ê+ƒö«r¯zÏë¢Y^ŠX¬

[Marc James Small]

At 08:49 AM 9/8/2006, Nick Roberts wrote:
>Yes, Mosley started as a Conservative, then
>became an Independant, then joined Labour, then
>set up his own party which eventually became the
>BUF. Incidentally, after the war he set up yet
>another party to campaign for a United Europe.

Mosley was a baronet, a hereditary knight, and I
presume that this Max Mosley, if he is the eldest
son, also holds the honorific "sir". Mosley is a
rather fascinating fellow with a very checkered
background. He was good friends with Churchill,
who cheerfully locked him up during the
Second World War and who failed for years to
correct rather horrible conditions of
confinement, such as a cell which constantly
flooded and the like. There finally was a
Parliamentary protest in 1944, and the Mosleys
were then released. Mosley was married to one of
the "Mitford girls", and his wife, Diana, was
once judged by Hitler to have been the perfect
Aryan woman, though Hitler and Mosley only appear
to have met on one occasion, and that
briefly. Mosley was no great fan of Hitler,
though he adopted many of his policies and tactics.

There were fascist movements in every developed
nation in the interwar years, ranging from the
rather mild Blueshirts in Saorstadt na h-Eireann
to the vicious French and Belgian versions and
the US' own KKK and DAB, not to mention the
nascent fascist movements engendered by Huey Long
("the Emperor of Louisiana has halitosis of the
intellect", intoned FDR's Secretary of the
Interior, Harold Ickes, a rather viscious bastard
in his own right) and Father Coughlin. It is
important to bear in mind that Franco was NOT a
fascist, though he enjoyed the support of the
Spanish fascist movement, the Falangist Party, to
which he never belonged. He and Hitler met on a
single occasion, and Hitler later stated that he
would rather have a dentist pull three or four
teeth without an anesthetic than to deal with
Franco again, as Franco made it obvious, even in
late 1940, when the Nazis were at the ascendant,
that he was not going to join in the German war,
though he later allowed the Falangists to send a
division to fight on the Russian Front -- and
Franco promptly ensured that several prominent
opponents of his regime were placed in positions
of command authority in that unit.

The entire matter of Interwar fascism is a
fascinating one but it is not one which can
easily be reduced to one-liners. A factory owner
in 1929 might well have wanted a government in
power which would keep the labor unions in
order; an Irishman might well support a movement
which placed a premium on recovering the Six
Counties shorn so wrongfully from the Republic,
and so on. But the mere fact that a German
emigrant into the US would go to a DAB rally to
sing the old songs and to fill himself with
memories of the Vaterland did not make this guy a
willing participant in the Holocaust and to
suggest such is absurd. (I know quite a bit
about the FBI surveillance of the DAB, as my
father was active in this and I later had a
client who had served as an undercover agent for the FBI in the later 1930's.)

Marc


***@aya.yale.edu
Cha robh bàs fir gun ghràs fir!

[Carlos Manuel Freaza]

--- Marc James Small <***@aya.yale.edu> escribió:

>> Mosley was married to one of
> the "Mitford girls", and his wife, Diana, was
> once judged by Hitler to have been the perfect
> Aryan woman, ..."

Your mention about the "perfect Aryan" reminded me a
saying during the Nazi regime in Germany; the
opposition said that the "perfect Aryan" was blond
like Hitler, svelte like Göring and tall like
Goebbels...

All the best
Carlos





__________________________________________________
Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí.
Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas,
está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta).
¡Probalo ya!
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[Antonio Garcia Russell]

Well, I wouldnt be so quick to reach that conclusion. Tony Blair only
last week floated that very idea as a way of dealing with crime in
the UK.

Antonio

On 8 Sep 2006, at 13:16, redleica wrote:

> Thamkfuly the extreme views which held sway in Europe at the time
> such as forced sterilisations of those unfit to be part of society,
> never gained the political momentum in Brittan that they did in
> other countries.

[Marvin Wallace]

That one went past me; Tony Blair floated the idea of forced sterilizations
to control crime?
I know he floated the idea of intervening in potential problem families, who
are not seen to be looking after their children.
This appears to be a world away from forced sterilizations!
Secondly I didn,t speak of individuals who hold views i.e Tony Blair, I
carefully spoke of wide spread political impetus. Winston Churchill for
example was a supporter in eugenics, which is my first point about extreme
ideas holding sway in Europe in the 30's.
Just my 2 Liras worth.

-----Original Message-----
From: rollei_list-***@freelists.org
[mailto:rollei_list-***@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Antonio Garcia
Russell
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 7:01 AM
To: ***@freelists.org
Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker

Well, I wouldnt be so quick to reach that conclusion. Tony Blair only
last week floated that very idea as a way of dealing with crime in
the UK.

Antonio

On 8 Sep 2006, at 13:16, redleica wrote:

> Thamkfuly the extreme views which held sway in Europe at the time
> such as forced sterilisations of those unfit to be part of society,
> never gained the political momentum in Brittan that they did in
> other countries.

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[Antonio Garcia Russell]

More or less, yes.


On 9 Sep 2006, at 08:43, Marvin Wallace wrote:

> That one went past me; Tony Blair floated the idea of forced
> sterilizations
> to control crime?

[redleica]

That is new to me, I would be greatful if you could provide evidence of Tony Blairs eugenics proposal, so I could see firsthand.
This is if in your statement you mean more or less yes to mean yes, and not no.
The second point that I would like to make is that it is the underlying philosophical commitment to methological and metaphysical naturalisim, that lead to these extreme views.
Which as I have pointed out several times why I have been vary careful not to focus on individuals but on the general political consensus within a country and in the continent of Europe.
Breifly stated for all the comment on poitics and history, the causes were philloshopical. And the reasons can be stated as they did not think what they were doing was wrong, and the saw no ultimate negative consequence in following there chiosen perceptions in life.
Any comments on the Rollei 3.5F, is it the best Rollei.
Thanks for your message,
God bless You.
Marvin.

-----Original Message-----
From: Antonio Garcia Russell <***@telefonica.net>
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 19:03:59
To:***@freelists.org
Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker

More or less, yes.


On 9 Sep 2006, at 08:43, Marvin Wallace wrote:

> That one went past me; Tony Blair floated the idea of forced
> sterilizations
> to control crime?

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[Antonio Garcia Russell]

Marvin,

He is a politician, he does not speak in specifics - particularly
when "floating ideas". My point was that even today the idea of
intervening in the childbearing abilities of people is still on the
political agenda. If the Nazis taught us anything it must surely be
that one has to remain constantly vigilant against such things. It
could happen again.

Antonio


On 9 Sep 2006, at 03:05, redleica wrote:

> That is new to me, I would be greatful if you could provide
> evidence of Tony Blairs eugenics proposal, so I could see firsthand.
> This is if in your statement you mean more or less yes to mean yes,
> and not no.
> The second point that I would like to make is that it is the
> underlying philosophical commitment to methological and
> metaphysical naturalisim, that lead to these extreme views.
> Which as I have pointed out several times why I have been vary
> careful not to focus on individuals but on the general political
> consensus within a country and in the continent of Europe.
> Breifly stated for all the comment on poitics and history, the
> causes were philloshopical. And the reasons can be stated as they
> did not think what they were doing was wrong, and the saw no
> ultimate negative consequence in following there chiosen
> perceptions in life.
> Any comments on the Rollei 3.5F, is it the best Rollei.
> Thanks for your message,
> God bless You.
> Marvin.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Antonio Garcia Russell <***@telefonica.net>
> Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 19:03:59
> To:***@freelists.org
> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker
>
> More or less, yes.
>
>
> On 9 Sep 2006, at 08:43, Marvin Wallace wrote:
>
>> That one went past me; Tony Blair floated the idea of forced
>> sterilizations
>> to control crime?
>
> ---
> Rollei List
>
> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>
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[redleica]

My point is that you stated something very specific and very (negative in my view) about an individual. If there is no evidence to support that claim only he said something meaning something else in your opinion, its beyond my cognition.
Stated philosophicaly you mean :
It is sufficient to say, but not necessarily the case that...
I think that this is the most that you could have inferred from your ambigous statement.
But prensenting the point as a fact is a little ambitious.
As you stated and I am in full agreement with you, we have to learn valuable lessons form our shared past.
Thanks for your message,
God bless You.
Marvin.

-----Original Message-----
From: Antonio Garcia Russell <***@telefonica.net>
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 10:29:28
To:***@freelists.org
Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker

Marvin,

He is a politician, he does not speak in specifics - particularly
when "floating ideas". My point was that even today the idea of
intervening in the childbearing abilities of people is still on the
political agenda. If the Nazis taught us anything it must surely be
that one has to remain constantly vigilant against such things. It
could happen again.

Antonio


On 9 Sep 2006, at 03:05, redleica wrote:

> That is new to me, I would be greatful if you could provide
> evidence of Tony Blairs eugenics proposal, so I could see firsthand.
> This is if in your statement you mean more or less yes to mean yes,
> and not no.
> The second point that I would like to make is that it is the
> underlying philosophical commitment to methological and
> metaphysical naturalisim, that lead to these extreme views.
> Which as I have pointed out several times why I have been vary
> careful not to focus on individuals but on the general political
> consensus within a country and in the continent of Europe.
> Breifly stated for all the comment on poitics and history, the
> causes were philloshopical. And the reasons can be stated as they
> did not think what they were doing was wrong, and the saw no
> ultimate negative consequence in following there chiosen
> perceptions in life.
> Any comments on the Rollei 3.5F, is it the best Rollei.
> Thanks for your message,
> God bless You.
> Marvin.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Antonio Garcia Russell <***@telefonica.net>
> Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 19:03:59
> To:***@freelists.org
> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker
>
> More or less, yes.
>
>
> On 9 Sep 2006, at 08:43, Marvin Wallace wrote:
>
>> That one went past me; Tony Blair floated the idea of forced
>> sterilizations
>> to control crime?
>
> ---
> Rollei List
>
> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>
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> in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
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> www.freelists.org
>
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> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>
> ---
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[Antonio Garcia Russell]

I supplied evidence to support my claim that such ideas where still
current amongst politicians, and that Tony Blair put recently floated
them. Stopping people having children based on ethnicity or any other
discriminatory factor is completely out of order in my book, be it
exposed by the Nazis or Tony Blair.

There is no God.

Antonio


On 9 Sep 2006, at 13:26, redleica wrote:

> My point is that you stated something very specific and very
> (negative in my view) about an individual. If there is no evidence
> to support that claim only he said something meaning something else
> in your opinion, its beyond my cognition.
> Stated philosophicaly you mean :
> It is sufficient to say, but not necessarily the case that...
> I think that this is the most that you could have inferred from
> your ambigous statement.
> But prensenting the point as a fact is a little ambitious.
> As you stated and I am in full agreement with you, we have to learn
> valuable lessons form our shared past.
> Thanks for your message,
> God bless You.
> Marvin.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Antonio Garcia Russell <***@telefonica.net>
> Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 10:29:28
> To:***@freelists.org
> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker
>
> Marvin,
>
> He is a politician, he does not speak in specifics - particularly
> when "floating ideas". My point was that even today the idea of
> intervening in the childbearing abilities of people is still on the
> political agenda. If the Nazis taught us anything it must surely be
> that one has to remain constantly vigilant against such things. It
> could happen again.
>
> Antonio
>
>
> On 9 Sep 2006, at 03:05, redleica wrote:
>
>> That is new to me, I would be greatful if you could provide
>> evidence of Tony Blairs eugenics proposal, so I could see firsthand.
>> This is if in your statement you mean more or less yes to mean yes,
>> and not no.
>> The second point that I would like to make is that it is the
>> underlying philosophical commitment to methological and
>> metaphysical naturalisim, that lead to these extreme views.
>> Which as I have pointed out several times why I have been vary
>> careful not to focus on individuals but on the general political
>> consensus within a country and in the continent of Europe.
>> Breifly stated for all the comment on poitics and history, the
>> causes were philloshopical. And the reasons can be stated as they
>> did not think what they were doing was wrong, and the saw no
>> ultimate negative consequence in following there chiosen
>> perceptions in life.
>> Any comments on the Rollei 3.5F, is it the best Rollei.
>> Thanks for your message,
>> God bless You.
>> Marvin.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Antonio Garcia Russell <***@telefonica.net>
>> Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 19:03:59
>> To:***@freelists.org
>> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker
>>
>> More or less, yes.
>>
>>
>> On 9 Sep 2006, at 08:43, Marvin Wallace wrote:
>>
>>> That one went past me; Tony Blair floated the idea of forced
>>> sterilizations
>>> to control crime?
>>
>> ---
>> Rollei List
>>
>> - Post to ***@freelists.org
>>
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>> in the subject field OR by logging into www.freelists.org
>>
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>> 'unsubscribe' in the subject field OR by logging into
>> www.freelists.org
>>
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>> http://www.freelists.org/archives/rollei_list
>>
>> ---
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[Mike Kovacs]

Has anyone fooled around with enlarging lenses for medium format macro?
I recently picked-up 50mm and 80mm 6-element Nikkor enlarging lenses and
I wonder whether its worth the trouble to adapt them to my Rolleiflex SL66?

Do they cover 6x6? If so, any idea of which f/stop and amount of
extension required for coverage? I'm just trying to get a ballpark
number to see if they fall into a useful magnification range for me.

I wonder how sharp they will be? The 80/2.8 Planar seems to perform
pretty well but I think the 50/4 Distagon suffers in the macro range
from being a retrofocus design. I don't own one but the 120/5.6 S-Planar
is just too long to consider for some of the higher magnification work I do.

I haven't got the enlarging lenses yet (still in the mail). I assume
they are LTM in which case I can rig up something to mount them. A blank
SL66 lens board from Hadley Chamberlain and a junked Soviet LTM lens
mount ought to do the trick.

Any guidance somebody can provide that has been down this road?

[Douglas Nygren]

I use an 80mm and it seems fine. A little bigger is good, too.

Doug


On Sep 9, 2006, at 8:11 AM, Mike Kovacs wrote:

> Has anyone fooled around with enlarging lenses for medium format
> macro? I recently picked-up 50mm and 80mm 6-element Nikkor enlarging
> lenses and I wonder whether its worth the trouble to adapt them to my
> Rolleiflex SL66?
>
> Do they cover 6x6? If so, any idea of which f/stop and amount of
> extension required for coverage? I'm just trying to get a ballpark
> number to see if they fall into a useful magnification range for me.
>
> I wonder how sharp they will be? The 80/2.8 Planar seems to perform
> pretty well but I think the 50/4 Distagon suffers in the macro range
> from being a retrofocus design. I don't own one but the 120/5.6
> S-Planar is just too long to consider for some of the higher
> magnification work I do.
>
> I haven't got the enlarging lenses yet (still in the mail). I assume
> they are LTM in which case I can rig up something to mount them. A
> blank SL66 lens board from Hadley Chamberlain and a junked Soviet LTM
> lens mount ought to do the trick.
>
> Any guidance somebody can provide that has been down this road?
> ---
> Rollei List
>
> - Post to ***@freelists.org
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>
>

[Carlos Manuel Freaza]

This is a nice Rolleidoscop, if you put the camera
vertical in your mind, the design relativeness with
the Rolleiflex TLR is evident.
Gustav Bethman, a very young technician, received
instructions from R Heidecke to "short" a Rolleidoscop
and then the Rolleidoscop right chamber was removed,
this first TLR prototype was enough to convince Paul
Franke that a compact and cheap TLR camera could be
developed.
After the demonstration for his partner, Heidecke
noticed that it was much more easy to handle the
prototype vertically and then a lot of work, new tools
and money was invested to adapt the shortened
Rolleidiscop to two vertical chambers, one for the
viewfinder and other for the film with vertical film
advance.
For years the Heidoscop and Rolleidoscop users used
them as normal camera capping one lens, after the
other and advancing the film after these two shots,
this way to use the stereo cameras was the compact TLR
design origin:

http://auction-team.de/new_highlights/2006_09/ph/074.html

All the best
Carlos






__________________________________________________
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está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta).
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[Antonio Garcia Russell]

Marvin,

From the article:

"In his first interview since returning from a Caribbean holiday,
Blair told the BBC that teenage mothers could be required to accept
state assistance with bringing up their children and could face
sanctions if they refused."

Anastasia de Waal, of social policy think-tank Civitas, said: “It is
teetering on genetic determinism this kind of saying that before
children are even born they are labelled as problematic.”

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/09/
tony_blairs_daddy_state_/


Antonio

On 9 Sep 2006, at 13:26, redleica wrote:

> My point is that you stated something very specific and very
> (negative in my view) about an individual. If there is no evidence
> to support that claim only he said something meaning something else
> in your opinion, its beyond my cognition.
> Stated philosophicaly you mean :
> It is sufficient to say, but not necessarily the case that...
> I think that this is the most that you could have inferred from
> your ambigous statement.
> But prensenting the point as a fact is a little ambitious.
> As you stated and I am in full agreement with you, we have to learn
> valuable lessons form our shared past.
> Thanks for your message,
> God bless You.
> Marvin.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Antonio Garcia Russell <***@telefonica.net>
> Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 10:29:28
> To:***@freelists.org
> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker
>
> Marvin,
>
> He is a politician, he does not speak in specifics - particularly
> when "floating ideas". My point was that even today the idea of
> intervening in the childbearing abilities of people is still on the
> political agenda. If the Nazis taught us anything it must surely be
> that one has to remain constantly vigilant against such things. It
> could happen again.
>
> Antonio
>
>
> On 9 Sep 2006, at 03:05, redleica wrote:
>
>> That is new to me, I would be greatful if you could provide
>> evidence of Tony Blairs eugenics proposal, so I could see firsthand.
>> This is if in your statement you mean more or less yes to mean yes,
>> and not no.
>> The second point that I would like to make is that it is the
>> underlying philosophical commitment to methological and
>> metaphysical naturalisim, that lead to these extreme views.
>> Which as I have pointed out several times why I have been vary
>> careful not to focus on individuals but on the general political
>> consensus within a country and in the continent of Europe.
>> Breifly stated for all the comment on poitics and history, the
>> causes were philloshopical. And the reasons can be stated as they
>> did not think what they were doing was wrong, and the saw no
>> ultimate negative consequence in following there chiosen
>> perceptions in life.
>> Any comments on the Rollei 3.5F, is it the best Rollei.
>> Thanks for your message,
>> God bless You.
>> Marvin.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Antonio Garcia Russell <***@telefonica.net>
>> Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 19:03:59
>> To:***@freelists.org
>> Subject: [rollei_list] Re: Rollei TLR - The History by Ian Parker
>>
>> More or less, yes.
>>
>>
>> On 9 Sep 2006, at 08:43, Marvin Wallace wrote:
>>
>>> That one went past me; Tony Blair floated the idea of forced
>>> sterilizations
>>> to control crime?
>>
>> ---
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[Slobodan Dimitrov]

Anyone read Evans on the Rollei?

Slobodan Dimitrov
Studio G-8,
Angels Gate Cultural Center
http://sdimitrovphoto.com